redchecker16
135 posts
Sep 16, 2008
11:00 PM
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Name is ED Randell 2day i lost my hole kit,this is the 2nd time this year is it me or the birds or the weather they all headed west once again. most had # band phone that is Lamont&ED on them. Now i have a few question #1 I'm feeding 95% milo an 5% peas they act starved all the time but lately they been having alot of energy could it be the feed? all 08 pigeons young any adivce is helpful at this point. or is it that im flying a mixed kit? whats ur take on it? thanks
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juanrollers
100 posts
Sep 16, 2008
11:05 PM
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Sorry to hear that. How was the weather? Did they just go up to a dot and disapear?
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chewy
180 posts
Sep 16, 2008
11:06 PM
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redchecker...sorry for ur friend's loses..but hope he keep the sports up..and have high dreams...like all of us..always try to strive to the top....good luck..on getting them baack..
chewy..
just my thoughts..
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redchecker16
137 posts
Sep 16, 2008
11:19 PM
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jaunrollers not a dot but somewhat high weather was clear nor windy it was a young team an i had 3 older hens in the kit but they broke formation an made it back you no how the vets do it. I think its the weather they been doing well on this feed 4 months an now just up an headed west out of range! thanks
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redchecker16
138 posts
Sep 16, 2008
11:20 PM
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thanks chewy Good advice Bro**
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chewy
181 posts
Sep 16, 2008
11:38 PM
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no problem redchecker..
that's what I do when i loses birds..and i probably loses more birds than him..and u combine lol....but good luck..
chewy..
just my thoughts..
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Otis
150 posts
Sep 17, 2008
6:36 AM
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Hey Red, Milo and peas can be a very high carbohydrate combination for young developing birds. I bet they were quite bouyant and light in body? Under this feeding regiment (too much milo)young birds will find it hard to resist the wind and will tend to drift out of their normal comfort zone. It's called feeling too good without the body to fight the wind. How long have you been railing them out on the milo and why?. A good quality 14% mix is essential for young birds and even yearlings! Best of luck in getting them back! Otis
Last Edited by on Sep 17, 2008 6:41 AM
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Santandercol
3055 posts
Sep 17, 2008
7:11 AM
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Milo is just a filler basically not a good one for development of bone/muscle.
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
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redchecker16
139 posts
Sep 17, 2008
8:55 AM
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Otis/your right they were light in the Body.Why? I feed this feeding is to keep them downan under control i thought, so young pigeons need 14% mix, I thought feeding this way cuts down flying time BOP is very bad in my area LA Area, Otis at what age you stop the 14%? thats w/out corn right? thanks for responding Redchecker16 aka Lamont
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redchecker16
140 posts
Sep 17, 2008
8:59 AM
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Santandercol- so you say just a filler can you explan? are you saying they need more feed also? I no everyone feeds different but at this point im willing 2 try anything too not Loose my pigeons thanks Buddy any advice is always helpful
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ArlenS
108 posts
Sep 17, 2008
9:08 AM
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How to Calculate Seed Mixture Protein and Fat Content Using Percent Weighted Averages:
95% red milo: approximately 9% protein, 3% fat
5% peas: approximately 23% protein, 1.25% fat
(0.95 x 9%) + (0.05 x 23%) = percent protein
8.55 + 1.15 = 9.7% protein
(0.95 x 3%) + (0.05 x 1.25%) = percent fat
2.85 + 0.0625 = 2.9% fat
The protein content is too low for growth and development in young birds (need 12-15%), and also too low for health maintenance in flying adults (need 12%).
Do you feed any oil seeds (or pellets) in the mix at times and for feather development and the molt (i.e., safflower)? They need the amino acids in their diet. The amino acids are the building blocks of proteins. Most seed diets are deficient in methionine, choline, choline, lysine, and also vitamins, unless supplemented. See Jay Alnimer's (J-Star) helpful article "Nutrition and the Rollers" in the site Reading Room, dated November 7, 2005.
I would probably eventually replace or augment the red milo with wheat which has a higher protein content (average 12% protein, 1.6% fat) and nutritional value.
In the interim, you could continue using milo, but I would at least add some safflower (15.6% protein, 31.6% fat) for young bird development and for all birds for the the molt. You can find 5 lb bags of safflower at Ace Hardware and Petsmart. Dr. Colin Walker, the "Flying Vet", author of "Pigeon Health Management", (I recommend this, it is available in this site store), advocates a diet of 12% protein with 4% fat for racing homers that are performing, and at least 18% protein for breeding. Dr. Matthew Vriends advocates 15-18% protein in the molt, and 12-15% protein for young birds.
Following are some ideas using these ingredients to achieve the above ranges.
1) Breeding - need at least 18% protein, and amino acids for development.
Protein Content
60% peas (23%), 30% milo (9%), 10 % safflower (15.6%):
(0.6 x 23%) + (0.3 x 9%) + (0.1 x 15.6%) = 18% protein
Fat Content
(0.6 x 1.25%) + (0.3 x 3%) + (0.1 x 31.6%) = 4.8% fat
2) Molting season - need 15-18% protein with methionine (safflower) for feather replacement.
Protein Content
45% peas (23%), 50% milo (9%), 5% safflower (15.6%):
(0.45 x 23%) + (0.5 x 9%) + (0.05 x 15.6%) = 15.6% protein
Fat Content
(0.45 x 1.25%) + (0.5 x 3%) + (0.05 x 31.6%) = 3.6% fat
3) Young bird development - need 12-15% protein.
You can use number 2) above for 15.6% protein.
4) Adult bird maintenance - probably need about 12% protein (lower fat mix without safflower)
Protein Content without safflower
25% peas (23%), 75% milo (9%):
(0.25 x 23%) + (0.75 x 9%) = 12.5% protein
Fat Content without safflower
(0.25 x 1.25%) + (0.75 x 3%) = 2.6% fat
5) Adult bird maintenance -
Protein Content with 5% safflower (use 2X week or so)
25% peas (23%), 70% milo (9%), 5% safflower (15.6%):
(0.25 x 23%) + (0.7 x 9%) + (0.05 x 15.6%) = 12.8% protein
Fat Content with 5% safflower
(0.25 x 1.25%) + (0.7 x 3%) + (0.05 x 31.6%) = 4% fat
Make sure you're not feeding all maple peas as they contain a substance that can somewhat hinder protein absorption.
Also available in the site store are vitamin supplements for water. Dr. Walker recommends using these 1-2X/week. Brewers yeast is beneficial. Red mineral grit also may be obtained that provides calcium, vitamins, and minerals.
Last Edited by on Sep 17, 2008 2:26 PM
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redchecker16
142 posts
Sep 17, 2008
9:29 AM
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ArlenS thanks for the chart im writing this down. I see a change in my feeding now my #1 team i lost this year was on 12% an i thought the weather had something 2 do with it these were 1-2 year old pigeons, so im under feeding my young pigeons I was thinking a table spoon of 95%milo 5%peas was all they need i been feeding this right after weaning once a day I had it all wrong thanks Buddy
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Otis
152 posts
Sep 17, 2008
9:53 AM
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Lamont, As Arlen explained, you were causing protein deficiency in growing birds-dangerous! Never control young birds by the type of feed, they aren't ready for that yet, unless it's straight wheat and that's iffy. Control them by the amount of good quality grain with some variety, BOP or not. Bet that kit found a good bird feeder with some sunflower or thisle seed a block or so away. You also want them to be strong enough to outfly and avoid a cooper or darting type BOP too! Can't do it on a milo/pea diet! I think a roller fed just what it needs is a happier/ better performing roller and it will show! Getting control of the feed can is the only secret to flying good rollers! It is an art form and the birds will teach you! Who said you have to stop the 14%! I wouldn't! Good Luck Bro! Otis
p.s. crack open some milo seed ...nothing but air!
Last Edited by on Sep 17, 2008 9:59 AM
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redchecker16
144 posts
Sep 17, 2008
11:27 AM
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Otis thanks a million back 2 the basics i GO!!
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Joe K
10 posts
Sep 17, 2008
10:26 PM
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Howdy after reading the few posts on feeding, protine percentages, ect. I just gona say it,,if the weather is bad and if the BOPs are around chasing Your kit, anything can happen even though I DO agree with Milo, that young birds should be fed a good all round mixture of grain and not restricted to low protine grains during their 1st year of growth! Good luck on getting most of them back.
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redchecker16
147 posts
Sep 17, 2008
10:34 PM
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Joe K thanks! well this morning 5 came back an i got one call from a fellow JohnnyRED! on a Good one i had been eyeing thanks Johnny an 2 all that gave me Advice Great Luck with your pigeons from ED Randell an Redchecker16 aka Lamont
Last Edited by on Sep 17, 2008 10:35 PM
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