TheGame
211 posts
Sep 23, 2008
9:02 PM
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Whats so special about them?? Why are they less popular than the Birmingham Rollers??
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crazyrider
12 posts
Sep 23, 2008
9:35 PM
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What flying features does the true Fireball Roller has got?
crazyrider
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FireBaller916
34 posts
Sep 23, 2008
9:39 PM
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Lets just say that Fireballs and Birminghams were breed for different performances...Fireballs are more for backyard flying kind of thing and Birminghams are for competition...But hey it doesnt hurt trying to fly Fireballs for competition...LOL...
Last Edited by on Sep 23, 2008 9:40 PM
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fresnobirdman
71 posts
Sep 24, 2008
9:59 AM
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so chai, are you saying that fireballs arent as good as birminghams.
~~Fresnobirdman~~
Last Edited by on Sep 24, 2008 9:59 AM
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3757
932 posts
Sep 24, 2008
10:14 AM
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Fireballs were not bred for unision rolling just as many other strains were not. I do not believe he is saying one is better than the other they were just bred for different reasons.
Last Edited by on Sep 24, 2008 10:15 AM
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Windjammer Loft
395 posts
Sep 24, 2008
5:15 PM
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Also the Fireball has a tendency to fly alot higher than the B/ham
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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RED
10 posts
Sep 24, 2008
5:34 PM
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DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHERE TO BUY SOME GOOD FIREBALLS RED
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sippi
564 posts
Sep 24, 2008
6:05 PM
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My Fireballs fly a lot higher than my Birms. Some will uinson break but most waterfall. They also roll deeper than the Birms for the most part. They will also fly for an hour or more when in fit condition.
As stated they were bred different but are from the same roller blood way back.
sippi
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fresnobirdman
72 posts
Sep 24, 2008
7:28 PM
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so do fireballs roll more and deeper than berminghams?
~~Fresnobirdman~~
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FireBaller916
35 posts
Sep 24, 2008
7:53 PM
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Yes Fresno, they were bred for there deep roll...When you have birds that's going to roll 100 feet plus your gonna need them to fly high...
Last Edited by on Sep 24, 2008 7:55 PM
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PR_rollers
1651 posts
Sep 24, 2008
8:02 PM
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A little history from the books.'
English Tumbling pigeons were sent to the U.S.
in the late 1800 ,and undoubtedly form the basics for the so called "American Rollers" it wasn't until J.V.McAree began importing birds from three generations of the Whittingham family that we have any accurate historical record if those early imports contributing directly to a particular strain.
As often happens ,poor records keeping along with lack of sustain interest cause birds to be passed from one fancier to another and their true origin gets lost.
The Whittinghams (both the fancier and their birds) were promoted by McAree, though not with the success which greeted the Pensom later.The mcAree birds were exported to the U.S.and would go on to make a major contribution to the Fireball" strain developed by the Reverend James E. Graham.
Grahams was a one time pigeon partner of McAree. Although the original "Fireball" a red beard cock ,first appeared pictured in 1941,Graham's book, Acrobats Of The Air.The following quote from J.E.Graham shed more light on McAree
and the origin and continuation of the fireball strain.
" From 1950 to 1955,I shared McAree's large pigeon barn.
and our combined century of Rollers experience was reflected in our 350 Birminghams.I took over all of his birds when he retired from the fancy in 1954. and when I moved to the United States in 1955. I brought with me the finest 20 of McAree stock along with the best 20 of my own as mates for them.In all honesty, I think they comprise the foremost collection of spinners in existence at that time.and they are the origin of all our present day fireballs."
Ralph
Last Edited by on Sep 24, 2008 8:32 PM
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FireBaller916
36 posts
Sep 24, 2008
8:15 PM
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That's "Fireball"
These were 4 of the best Whittingham at the time...
Fireballs are Whittingham based...Fireball was just a Whittingham cock name Fireball...It was Fireball son that founded the Fireball Strain as of today...Fireball was hit by a blizzard storm when he escaped from Graham's loft...Graham did manage to have one son left from Fireball and bred him to McAree and his finest hens...
Last Edited by on Sep 24, 2008 9:52 PM
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FireBaller916
37 posts
Sep 24, 2008
8:30 PM
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This is just an experiment pair since my foundation pair and the rest of my fireballs got stolen...This little bb was the only one that manage to not get stolen...I just pick up a dun fireball hen from a friend that was getting out of rollers so I was lucky enough to get my hand on this FB hen...
Last Edited by on Sep 24, 2008 8:32 PM
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kopetsa
1631 posts
Sep 24, 2008
8:32 PM
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Wowo.. this bottom bird is very nice!
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Andrew
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TheGame
213 posts
Sep 24, 2008
8:37 PM
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As far as size goes.... are FB's bigger??
Also could Fb's be flown with BR's? Or would you guys not recommend that because of the diff flying characteristics?
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FireBaller916
38 posts
Sep 24, 2008
8:42 PM
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I believe the Fireballs back then were bigger but as time passes by they became smaller...Its just like birmingham...I recommend not to fly them both Fireballs and Birminghams together...It will mess up both kit and you'll have to cull them...Try it and it didnt work out the way i wanted it too...Plus i feed them both different grains...For my Fireballs I feed them up more with 15% pigeon mix with no corn and for my Birmings i just give them 50/50 wheat and milo and 1 tbsp per bird depending how they are flying...
Last Edited by on Sep 24, 2008 8:51 PM
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katyroller
278 posts
Sep 24, 2008
9:10 PM
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I fly a family of Fireballs off the L.V. French strain. As mentioned above the Fireballs and BR's are different in performance. My family tends to fly very high for long periods of time and get strong on the wing very easily. My family also tends to come into the roll around 6-7 months and don't reach full depth till about 18 months. I am experimenting with the feed but have found that you can not break them down like BR's or they have a bad tendency to bounce. I believe that a good breeder can breed Fireballs for competition flying but that it would be easier to just fly BR's for competitions. Why re-invent the wheel? :)
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TheGame
215 posts
Sep 24, 2008
9:19 PM
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Tony Chavarria do you have any fireball rollers that you fly??
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FireBaller916
41 posts
Sep 24, 2008
9:47 PM
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I beleive that Tony did fly 2 in the fall fly about a year ago...Not sure he is still breeding or flying Fireballs nows...
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RED
11 posts
Sep 25, 2008
5:10 PM
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ONE MORE TIME DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHERE TO BUY SOME GOOD FIREBALLS
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katyroller
279 posts
Sep 25, 2008
6:05 PM
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RED, Send me a email at tw.martin@earthlink.net and I may be able to point you in the right direction.
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sippi
566 posts
Sep 25, 2008
7:42 PM
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Katyroller I have L V French and Hank Johnsons. I too found that you couldnt break down the Fireballs. I tried Monty Neibel's YO-YO system on all my birds last year. The Birms do well on it. The Orientals do really good on it. The Fireballs turned into mad rollers and bumpers. I had a black whiteside Fench hen today that couldnt land. She had not started rolling until today and every time she tried to land she bounced from twenty feet. She tried four times. Then went back up and rolled but was fighting to pull out the whole time. She rolled down into the trees and just sat for about thirty minutes. She made another attempt this time flawless. I put her back and am going to feed her up good.
sippi
I also found out the Hank Johnsons and L V French birds are from the same stock.
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sippi
567 posts
Sep 25, 2008
7:44 PM
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Red you didnt fill out your profile so no one can email you.
sippi
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sippi
568 posts
Sep 25, 2008
7:44 PM
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Red you didnt fill out your profile so no one can email you.
sippi
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tomas'commerce,ca.
3 posts
Sep 25, 2008
8:10 PM
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hey fireballer916,i have a pigeon that looks just like the one you have in the top picture,almost to the tee and its a hen too and she just had her first egg,its mated to a BR that is red and has white flights,they both roll about 15'ft. deep,i am not sure this is a fireball but it looks almost exactly the same as yours, how can i find out if this is a fireball?if i had a usb cable for my camera id post a picture of it,sorry about that:( soon as i can get 1 i will post it here.
Tom
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FireBaller916
42 posts
Sep 25, 2008
9:59 PM
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Sippi, is she a young bird or a old bird???
Hi Tom, it's pretty hard to tell Fireballs from Birminghams because I have some Fireballs that looks just like birmingham and are as small as Birmingham...The only way to tell them apart is to fly them out you'll notice the difference in performance...Lets just say that not a lot of people know about fireballs...Only a few people heard of them but they know so little about the history of fireballs...You'll get a lot of negative fee back from people saying that there just rolldown but they havent even seen or have the real thing to judge them in person...Rumor gets around quick...I believe the only guys that are still breeding and flying Fireballs are 2 guys from Rhode Island and another guy in Washington...There's other too but these are the main guys that have them the longest that I known off...
Last Edited by on Sep 25, 2008 10:04 PM
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katyroller
280 posts
Sep 26, 2008
5:29 AM
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sippi, My family is out of stock birds from the Howard's in Rhode Island. Who did you get your French birds from?
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FireBaller916
43 posts
Sep 26, 2008
10:29 AM
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Katyroller, the only ones that have LV French Fireballs are Steve Howard, Bob Boisvert, and Gary Andrew....Bruce Kulhman have the George Patterson FBs, Casperson, and old Strain of Whittinghams...Alan Belvin has the Hank Johnson FBs...There's also a guy that carry the old strain of Whittinghams and his name is Gordan Jackson...These guys have the real deal...
Last Edited by on Sep 26, 2008 10:30 AM
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katyroller
281 posts
Sep 26, 2008
12:19 PM
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FireBaller916, My stock birds are directly from Steve Howard and his father Rich. Yes, they are the real deal! Send me a email at my personal email, you might be able to help me get ahold of Gordon Jackson. Thanks,
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FireBaller916
44 posts
Sep 26, 2008
12:56 PM
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Here's my email chai_ch3ngsta@hotmail.com
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RED
12 posts
Sep 26, 2008
4:44 PM
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HI SIPPI ADDED E-MAIL TO MY PROFILE SORRY ABOUT THAT
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sippi
569 posts
Sep 26, 2008
6:23 PM
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Katyroller I got the Hank Johnsons the same time that Alan Bliven got them. I got my LV French birds from Steve Howard. The bird that bumped on me was a young hen. I am feeding her up to see if it helps. Mine flew this morning for over an hour. A coopers hit one as they were coming down and they flew another thirty minutes after that. The bird dodged at the last minute and the cooper hit the side of the loft. I sure hope it didnt hurt the poor little birdy. The Fireball came in all spooked up missing its tail but unhurt otherwise. The Cooper lit in a tree and just sat there for ten minutes about thirty yards from the loft. Then it gathered itself and flew away. Hungry!!
Sippi
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ROLLERMAN
222 posts
Sep 26, 2008
6:49 PM
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sippi
In tne 70s there were about 10 guys in rhode island that flew fireballs fron lv french. includeing hank johnson.
hank moved to flaggstaff az. And shipped most of his good birds there , Hank was also one of the better bredders around at the time
al
Last Edited by on Sep 26, 2008 6:52 PM
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ROLLERMAN
223 posts
Sep 26, 2008
6:49 PM
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sippi
In tne 70s there about 10 guys in rhode island that flew fireballs from lv french. includeing hank johnson.
hank moved to flaggstaff az. And shipped most of his good birds there , Hank was also one of the better breeders around at the time
al
Last Edited by on Sep 26, 2008 6:53 PM
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crazyrider
13 posts
Sep 26, 2008
8:15 PM
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A very good Fireball performer, how many time does it rolls ( let say in 20 minutes ) ?
crazyrider
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Fireball
1 post
Sep 26, 2008
8:42 PM
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Thank you for the solid inquiry about the Fireball family. I have all of Hank Johnson breeders from Bill Hart via Alan Blevin and Scott Marshall. I also have the original remaining stock birds from George Patterson. Gordon Jackson and I swap birds periodically. He has some fine Whittinghams. My Patterson birds are RR and Red Spangles while the Hank Johnson birds come in all assorted colors from red splash, blue self and splashes, almond and kites, black badges, splashes and many other variables. They come in to the roll from 6-8 months and mature around 12 months or so. Correct..they fly a bit higher and roll deeper than the average comp. bird. They will generally kit good with each other but fly a bit different than the Birm. comp. bird. Steve and Rich Howard and Bob B. have some great L.V. French birds. I just got two from Bob B. off the auction. Very nice birds. I have a few late hatch birds for myself..Good family and after a couple of years several guys are now raising some good ones. Tony, I believe has some..perhaps for sale. Feel free to e-mail me with or for information..Tony, Rich or Steve Howard, Bob B.. We all want more folks to be raising and enjoying this family. Bruce rkandbk1@yahoo.com
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Windjammer Loft
405 posts
Sep 28, 2008
7:58 AM
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Just curious as I read this tread I see many different families of FIREBALLS mentioned. What would be the problem, if one was to crossbreed some of these families together?? Or would thier be no problems. Seeing that they all fly relitativly high,much higher then the B/hams. Would their be any other characteristic changes??
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Sep 28, 2008 7:58 AM
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Fire_Baller_916
291 posts
Sep 28, 2008
9:07 AM
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Paul, lets just say that different breeders breed for certain things and yes it will change the way they fly and the way they roll depending on what the breeders breed for...Its just like the birminghams, they are all Pensom based right? do they all fly the same?? No, that's because people breed for a certain style, look, color, and etc which will effect the way they fly when you fly them with a different birmingham family...So in the future if Fireballs was to get more popular, Fireball too will change as i can see it already...
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Chai Seng
Last Edited by on Sep 28, 2008 9:16 AM
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rollernewbie
65 posts
Sep 28, 2008
10:26 AM
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whoa nice fireballs...reading these post i learned a lot about these fireball rollers and BRs..
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-Billy
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Windjammer Loft
411 posts
Sep 28, 2008
10:53 AM
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Chai.......I kinda knew the answer but, I wanted to get and outside view. Thanks
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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Fireball
2 posts
Sep 28, 2008
8:09 PM
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Paul..one of my projects has been to take two families of Whittinghams and one of the Fireball (basically a Whit)and bring them back together after 50 years seperated. Charlie Hubbs yellow and red whitesides and Richard Krupke black whitesides & black badges covered with Pattersons family of red mottle Grahams FB. All three familys fly a bit differently but come into the roll from 10months to 15 months. With the cross, 80% or so come into the roll at 7-8 months..strong and high velocity. They are getting better with each fly. Just coming out of molt they are quite good and getting better. Hyper blood we call it. Same family just been apart for 50 years. Viberate colors and outstanding flying. By the way..roll downs are 2-3% on the F1. I have had some very deep..130'..but the average is 40-75 feet. Good velocity and style. Bruce
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Windjammer Loft
413 posts
Sep 30, 2008
5:10 PM
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Bruce.....Now thats what Iam talken about. Thaat definately answers my question. Thanks again.
By the way see you when you come to Wooster...
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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