Windjammer Loft
415 posts
Oct 05, 2008
4:25 PM
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Here is my dilima.....With the present family of birds Hardesty/Roe I have had for 4yrs now. I don't really get the frequency or the depth that I want in my birds. Iam looking for somewhere in the area of 20 to 30ft if possible. Right now Iam lucky to get 5 to 10 footers at best.At this point I am very dissapointed with this family.
QUESTION.... How can I develope more of each??? Or is it not possible with these birds. I have tried several approaches to this but, to NO availe,I have failed. What would you suggest that I try??? I have even given the thought of changing families
I have even gone so far as to get some Fireballs and Oriental Rollers to have some birds with some greater depth and frequency.
Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreaciated at this time.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Oct 05, 2008 4:26 PM
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Oldfart
831 posts
Oct 05, 2008
4:41 PM
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Buy some birds from Tony, then you will have what you want!
Thom
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bigwilly
640 posts
Oct 05, 2008
4:53 PM
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Norm Reed, Tony, Steve Smith, Wood. These guys have what u are looking for guaranteed
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
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Windjammer Loft
417 posts
Oct 05, 2008
5:07 PM
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So are both of you saying that I should cut my losses and change??
Thom.......thats funny you said that (ha,ha,ha)
I just happen to have 2 pr of Rubys that Iam breeding from too.
bigwilly......I just might have to contact those guys and ask some questions...thanks
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Oct 05, 2008 5:08 PM
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bigwilly
641 posts
Oct 05, 2008
5:24 PM
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If I knew what I know now, I would not buy birds from anyone who is not competeing. Go to some flys and look at the birds if u like what u see, those are the bird u need 2 work with. It will save alot of time. Trust me. Just my oppinion
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
Last Edited by on Oct 05, 2008 5:25 PM
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gotspin7
1865 posts
Oct 05, 2008
6:02 PM
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Paul, In my personal opinion I would cull the bunch of them if that is all they are doing for you after breeding those families for that long. I would recomend you start all over again with some quality stock from a reputable flyer with a good honest track record and that way maybe instead of wasting 4 more years you might kick arse the next 4! Good luck brother in your decision.
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Sal Ortiz
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Ballrollers
1528 posts
Oct 06, 2008
6:50 AM
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Paul,
The Hardesty/Roe family has produced some excellent birds, from what I have seen. Either you started with birds that were not proven breeders, or your own breeding and handling practices are suspect. Lathan Collins, here in North Carolina, flys Hardesty birds and depth/speed is certainly not a problem in his loft. Have you had a qualified judge evaluate your birds depth and agree that your birds are either too short to score, or barely minimum depth? Once you are sure that your birds are on the short side, depth-wise and you are feeding them and conditioning them right...... You may need to bring in a few H/R birds from other lofts that you have seen perform that DO meet your depth standards. In four years, surely you have seen something by now, or you can contact Lathan. Did you check with the breeder you got them from to see if you are doing all the right things? When starting out, many things can slow your progress. The national average is rather low when it comes producing good birds. Add to that, the losses we are taking due to BOP and over-flys, and if we cannot evaluate all the birds raised/settled, we are not seeing the fruits of our labor. I would call men who fly this strain and make sure you have done everything you should before moving to another family. They are an excellent family of rollers. Though, it could be as simple as these birds just didn't work for you, for whatever reason.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Oct 06, 2008 6:51 AM
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Oldfart
832 posts
Oct 06, 2008
10:32 AM
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Paul, I thought about this all day and what I wanted to say to you. I think I will first tell you what I have experienced with Tony's birds. From my initial seed stock of two pairs the first year and then an additional pair the second breeding season I now have about fifty birds. By necessity I must keep my birds around this number. Of these fifty I have raised a handfull of exceptional cock's and a few very nice hens. Not to say that the rest are shabby, it's just that the others are cream! The normal depth on average is in the ten to twenty foot range, the deeper birds are thirty foot very tight, very fast. I have no problem birds, no roll downs, a few kitting problems but that was my fault because of a late start and an early lockdown. I have one very nice cock, that I intend to use along with his father as my foundation.
Now as to what I would suggest for you, and this is only suggestion! I, were I you, would circle the wagons around Tony's birds, I would use as many pumpers as is possible to produce as many young as you can. Halfway through the breeding season, I would pause, break them up and pair each of your cock's with the other hen. Then again raise as may as possible. Then fly the living stuffing out of them. Keep the best and pair them to their parents and siblings. Repeat, repeat,then repeat, you get it. Now, I would not introduce any outside birds into this strain, you are for all intent producing all the outcross birds you should ever need.
This is just my opinion and I will not mind if anyone young or old wants to jump in and add or correct this suggestion.
Thom
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3757
941 posts
Oct 06, 2008
10:47 AM
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Oldfart - That is an awesome suggestion and is what I call a person that is interested in breeding and learning their birds. Changing families gets you another ? mark no matter if you seen them or not because you do not know the family or the problems within the line. I often hear guys state get a family from someone who is winning! Well, how many of them have Monty Niebels or Heinz birds? Hardly any and Monty won the world cup three times! Would not it seem that this would be the best? Of course not! Best is what is best for you whatever that may be. Your suggestion is one that takes up the challenge of breeding.
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George R.
1053 posts
Oct 06, 2008
1:00 PM
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good suggestions .. But why try to reinvent the wheel ?
Some strains are not for everyone. I would suggest you go around to lofts and seee some Birds fly . If you cant well then you will have to speak to as many guys that have gone to many lofts like Eldon cheney Etc.
then when you narrow it down speak right to the breeders and see what they say.
if they dont Fly Comps I most likely would pass on there Birds.
Old Fart if your Birds are doing that good I think you should enter some Comps and see where they stand in Comparison to other Familys that are flying in Comps.
the Novice
George
Last Edited by on Oct 06, 2008 1:03 PM
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Oldfart
833 posts
Oct 06, 2008
2:03 PM
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George R., I did not mean to sound braggadocious. I was simply trying to make the point that sticking with one family would be the way I would and have chosen. I researched as best I could before I purchased birds from Tony. I had never spoken to him before ordering so I can only surmise that I received a fair sampling of the product he offers to any client. I once commented to him that if the birds he sent me were representative of the birds he sent to anyone, then what did the birds he kept look like!! As to comps., I no longer feel the need to prove anything to anyone including myself, I breed my birds for pleasure only and welcome anyone to my yard to watch them fly, at anytime! Just call first! ;-)) I just simply don't have the time to waste on anything but the good times and great friends I have, and my family and bride.
Professer Doucet, you got it.
Thom
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3757
942 posts
Oct 06, 2008
2:08 PM
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Thom - Thanks! It amazes me at some comments as I really do not believe that people realize what they are really saying in word. Keep up the great work breeding and enjoying your birds.
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Oldfart
834 posts
Oct 06, 2008
3:07 PM
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To repeat myself, Professor, you got it!
Thanks, Thom
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Windjammer Loft
418 posts
Oct 07, 2008
4:26 PM
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My thanks to each and everyone of you who gave your suggestions, opinions and advise. I will take it all in and make a much wiser decision my choice of birds. Once again many many thanks to all of you guys.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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