smoke747
1332 posts
Oct 16, 2008
6:18 PM
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Tell us the base of your family, why you chose that family,where you you plan on taking that family, and how could you improve it?
The base of my family is my Smoke birds. they are a Pensom/Bob Scott x Fullhouse cross. Bred for speed w/good style, freq.,homing ability, and kitting but were short so added the Higgins/Reed line for more depth and unison. They can be improved by getting more of the deep ones to get back to the kit quicker and spin tighter
My goal for this family is to breed more birds like my top performers in the 80% range and continue to be competitive and proud of my work in the lab (my loft).
smoke747----------
Keith London
ICRC
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silver tail
527 posts
Oct 16, 2008
7:10 PM
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I will give this a try my main Family is based around a Reed cock bred by my Uncle W.Wright I use a line of K.McCray birds that also go back to the old N.Reed birds as my cross. I am looking for my % to rise in the same area as Smoke 80% or better and also keeping the deep in my family
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sippi
586 posts
Oct 16, 2008
7:18 PM
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I have Turner birds. I chose them because they are easy to work with and I didnt want to have to bend my ways to a family but rather a family that will train to me. Right now I am happy with what I am getting but I would like higher percentages but who wouldnt.
sippi
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gotspin7
1953 posts
Oct 17, 2008
3:48 AM
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Keith, Once again great post! I will say mine are easy to work with and the key to this family is they have a high percentage of roll!
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Sal Ortiz
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gabe454
1292 posts
Oct 17, 2008
10:01 AM
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I fly Eddie Verdugo family of birds after studying them for 2yrs i decided to go with his family.I like them becuase they are Deep,tight spin,quality and frequent.Had them for one year and been happy with what ive been seeing I competed with them this year in the fall fly they scored 151.32pts at 11:30 mins falcon attack this team was a real young team all 08s but two 07s so realy happy could have scored more but its ok,maybe have better luck next year in the W/C.But real happy with this family.
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454
TRIPLE "G" LOFT
L.P.R.C
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wishiwon2
86 posts
Oct 17, 2008
10:57 PM
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I have family of birds from Jay Starley/ Ken Easley.
Reasons I chose this family of rollers:
1. They are capable of as good of quality as is anywhere.
2. They are easy to work with compared to some other families I have owned.
3. As a family, they dont have alot of faults, i.e. rolldowns, outfliers, high flying etc. One exception seems to be that as squeakers they are a challenge to get in the air.
4. There are several other fanciers who are nearest to me who fly the same bloodlines. Therefore I have a broad resource for information and access to birds to exchange.
Things I would like to improve upon:
1. higher percentage of predictable matings that produce quality rollers. I have some prs that produce 100% roll, but very few are top quality. I want to increase that, both number of pairs producing good rollers and a predictably higher quality of offspring.
2. Typically young birds develope over a very short time period. One day they are just flying around and with in a week they are hitting it hard. They develope around 5-7 months with a few being later. Those that come into rolling at 5 months or less, are somewhat overcome by the roll and struggle in their developement. I would prefer they came on a little more gradually, say over a months time and perhaps in 7-9 months. Hopefully it would give their minds and bodies a chance to adapt to rolling hard. I can fly year round, so a little slower developement is ok, but absolutely they must be showing me something by 1 yr old.
3. I prefer an H wing pattern. I get very few like this. More of them are A or high X wing.
4. Always working to improve on kit sensitivity. I include birds who break together as a criteria for stock selection. This family kinda naturally likes to do that, I just want to keep it and/or improve it some.
My family is not tight bred. They all have common ancestry, (some 4 or 5 generations) going back to mainly 2 cocks and 2 or 3 hens. Over time I would like to tighten up my genetic pool just a little. Make my stock something more like all cousins. This family has several different legs (4 or 5) each a bit different from each other. I want to select 1 or 2 and breed more focused around a single branch of the family tree.
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laj27
85 posts
Oct 17, 2008
11:15 PM
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Why my family?first of all they Have
1.Extreme velocity
2.Kit chemistry
3.Nice depth 20 to 40
4.frequency,nice style
5.small beatiful birds
6.they come in early meaning the first couple days out the birds r doinng full single flips by the time i fly them about 2 months the birds r spinning 10 to 15 feet even more!!!with good speed
I fly Steve Smith birds that go back to higgins line!!!
LUIS. DOUBLE SMOKE LOFT
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Scott
1195 posts
Oct 18, 2008
12:54 AM
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My birds look like Jaconettes more than I want to admit,plus you gotta keep your thumb on them once mature which is a real pain in the ass,to top it off they look like barn pigeons , but they are mine.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Oct 18, 2008 12:57 AM
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BA Rollers
86 posts
Oct 18, 2008
8:12 AM
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"Tell us the base of your family, why you chose that family,where you you plan on taking that family, and how could you improve it?"
I have three families, each for nine years. Each has good point, each has stuff that needs to be improved. One family is a family I made from a pair of Smith (the original Smith, as in Leroy) birds and a pair of Gibson birds. That whole family is based on four birds. The other is my Horners birds and the third is an odds and ends mix of some Reed based birds.
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mr.b.j
14 posts
Oct 18, 2008
9:10 AM
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hey kieth whats good? i met u @ the show @ goody house bakc in july.....my name bj i was with puff we was askin u about a guy name g-rokc an u say u didnt no him u only no 1 person with that name..........
well i bought a few birds that day i notice they have the icrc band on if i give u the # on the band can u tell me a lil about them???
thanxx!!!
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fresnobirdman
150 posts
Oct 18, 2008
9:35 AM
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to wishiwon2
is the easley birds pemsons line?
~~Fresnobirdman~~
Last Edited by on Oct 18, 2008 9:36 AM
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smoke747
1345 posts
Oct 19, 2008
12:45 AM
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mr bj , sure if the birds are from me.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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smoke747
1347 posts
Oct 19, 2008
12:50 AM
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Thanks for the replies. Your replies lets the new guys see how some breeders take the time to build their families to their liking and to get to their ultimate goal.
thanks again!
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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Indy
31 posts
Oct 19, 2008
6:44 AM
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When I got started in rollers I got my first birds from Charlie Folkening from my understanding they were mostley Higgens, and Jaconettes. I got them from him because I had met him through poultry shows and knew he ran the Sothern Indiana Roller Club. I then got some birds from Bud Palmer. If you live in centeral Indiana and start talking to peoople about rollers you are going to hear the name Bud Palmer over and over. He is not only known in IN. I went to Louisville, KY to the Young Bird Show a few years back and was talking to Bud and people from all over the country were coming up and talking to him about his rollers. Anyone who knows Bud knows that he almost never sells birds so I consider myself blessed to have him give me some birds last fall. Bud has been breeding rollers for years so I am not sure what all is behind his but I know he did tell me that they had James Turner blood behind some of them I got from him. I was told that he is now compleatley out of birds now. I had no particular reason to get the birds that I did other than they were close and I had been told a lot of good things about both of these guys. I did pick up two pair of birds from John Walsh at Louisville who said his were mostley out of James Turner bloodlines. I plan to take another year or so to learn more about how to breed and fly these birds and then start flying in some club flys and see what happens. My birds might not be world beaters but they should be a good foundation to work from.
JohnL
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mr.b.j
43 posts
Oct 19, 2008
3:58 PM
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ok keith here--ICRC 428 (08)
ICRC 943 (04)
well i had 1 more but it died rite after the show maybe 3 dayz later so i never got 2 rite the band #.
good looking tho!!!!!!!
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smoke747
1354 posts
Oct 19, 2008
10:26 PM
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Is 943 a dilute dun chk w/w o/e hen? If so she is smoke x reed. As a matter of fact she off my main smoke cock 976 and the the blue chk hen right off the reed pair.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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mr.b.j
44 posts
Oct 20, 2008
8:34 AM
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yea 943 is tha dilute dun w/f (hen)
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diamondrollers
300 posts
Oct 20, 2008
9:37 PM
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sam williams and billings in my books is one of the best 2 punch combos there great by them selfs and crossed i keep them mostly on them selfs. they fly great together. i got a couple pair of the old steward line that i want to try over the william birds. in 07 i had a steward hen loaned to me and tried it on the sammie birds for one round only one squab made it and it is stocked flew it two seasons im planning on trying it both way to see what happens im very happy with what i have going on. last year i was in last place in our local club this year in 4th out of 10 flyers i can say that iam improving
sal
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Square
532 posts
Oct 21, 2008
11:36 AM
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For me My foundation was a PRC banded Cock 7145 "91" I worked with this bird from 96 till he passed away in the Loft of D.Henderson in 2001, while I was in Alaska. Dave too really good care of my breeders and gave me the last cock bird he bred and now it is him and his brother that are the back bone of that side of my family. The other side comes from Rex Clark, outta N. Cal. Rex has passed away but I got some of the best birds ive seen from him. He was a great friend, I have been really working hard on the birds in general. The reason I choose my family of birds is because they have Longevity,. At first I was discourged because some didnt turn a flip for a year but when the came into the roll they were ideal. But the time was kinda a problem so I thought. Now I relize I rather them take longer than to crash comming into the roll at a earley age. So I have been working on the time now I got them down to about 6month's, with selictive breeding. Now the birds I got from Rex, I really like but they were on the larger side and alittle long in the tail, but the roll came on fast and was really smooth. There is a big diffrence in the two families. The rollers I made prior would come into the roll doing one flip then doing what I like to call "mathmatics" just putting rolls and tailsets togeather, the five feet, ten feet , twenty feet and so on till ither the stabelized or derstroyed themselves. The birds I obtained from Rex are just the opposite, they come into the roll relly deep and kinda loose but eventually shallow up and tighten up the roll. I choose my strain's of rollers because of the time invested, that is probally first and foremost. Also I like the fact that I am the one responsible for their progress to this point, I also like the fact that I have done what my father and other oldhand mentor type of people told me, and that is Aquire the best stock avilible, cull raddicaly build your own family and own the results Be them good or bad. and thats where I am at this point. I can honestly say that if for some strange reason I lost every roller I have, I would be stuck and super sick. It wouldent matter if the person who won the world cup offerd me 12pairs for free!! It's the time, its easy to buy rollers im talking really good rollers, but its kinda hard to put a price on 12years invested into ones specific family yakno. What Im working on now is holdovers from boath families, that is my target for the next 18months, as I am pretti happy with the progress so far.. Thanx for your time... TRULY
Square.
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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3757
977 posts
Oct 21, 2008
6:00 PM
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" It wouldent matter if the person who won the world cup offerd me 12 pairs for free!!"
Square - That is what I am talking about! That is a person who has a serious goal and you do not jump ship because of a win etc! I love it and great post!!
Many guys see Joe the plumber and his awesome pigeons (And he deserves credit) and they want to automatically cross his pigeons with their family.
Last Edited by on Oct 21, 2008 6:06 PM
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Indy
39 posts
Oct 21, 2008
6:27 PM
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Great post square.
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JohnL
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RXR Loft
302 posts
Oct 21, 2008
7:58 PM
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square, very nice post.
you truly are an old school roller man
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RxR Loft
Roll'em if you got'em...
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Square
534 posts
Oct 22, 2008
11:46 AM
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Thanx Guy's, That is truly how I feel. I know there are alot of great rolley flyer's out there, But really what makes them great is the "Time spent". I think if more of us focus on the time it takes to bulid a dream then we will have alot less people chasing the dream,! for long durations,. I know alot of people that have some really good birds... But they are constantly buying, aquring collecting,and loose sight of the time/ money they need to spend in their own back yard. I really look up to the folks that have created their own deal/ Ideal, people like London, Henderson, Wright, And all the greats I didnt get to list oyea there is one other "BOOKER" LOL.. Thanx for yor time, Truly this site is nice!!!!
Square
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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George R.
1091 posts
Oct 22, 2008
8:02 PM
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Laron and Booker
Correct me if I am wrong .. but you guys are making it sound like if a Person Flys some decent kits BUT he didnt make his Family from scratch that he deserves less credit for doing good in flys then a Guy that has spent 20 years or more building a Family of Birds.
I would think that anybody that Flys a good kit and does well in a Fly should deserve some credit for his accomplishments regardless of where he got the Birds.
I have been involved in different types of Competetions with different kinds of animals all my life .
And I know how hard it is to do well in any comp. when animals are involved.
I just think that a person deserves Just as much credit regardles if he didnt create the strain of Birds that he did good with.
not everyone wants to spend 30 years making a Family of Birds . some want to Fly good Kits as soon as possible , so they can enjoy the Flys and also hold there own in any Comp. they might enter.
The Novice
George
Last Edited by on Oct 22, 2008 8:03 PM
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gotspin7
1982 posts
Oct 23, 2008
5:25 AM
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Square, good story. One thing do if the birds were better than what I had at the time you know from the world cup winner I would not hesitate to take them! You would probably save yourself another 5-20 years of work?....LOL
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Sal Ortiz
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Square
540 posts
Oct 23, 2008
12:56 PM
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Yea George I wasnt tryin to Smash on the people who want to pay the money for a quality kit's to fly like right now. That is up to that person, Yea that's prettie much the way to go if you want quality rollers, but after a while there comes the time to draw the line, yakno? I mean If I was a millionare and could afford the best strain avilible any given year,, then yes I would be woppin some ASS. But All I did was be in a position where I could BUY the BEST... Is it still the best,? yea as far as avilibility and my ability to BUYUM. If someone buys the best and wins that year thats GREAT, But the point I am making is money only goes so far,, point blank. and most have to understand that this only my personal opion, All im saying is for me it's about going foward when you get the best stock avilible, in your program. If someone bought the best every year and did really well, they would be alot diffrent than me, because money isnt a option, they will aquire the best at any price,, and if the do well in the comps then more power to them,, and if the flop,, then guess what they have the money to pick up the latest trend nomatter the cost.. I just want to be respected for the family Ive developed, no disrespect to the guy who buy's good stock and does well with that, we all kno its way more than just getting the best, its how good of a coach you are "REALLY"... Really cut and dry it's like this for me, I dont really want to be reconized as the guy with the birds, you can collect birds all over and buyum too. I want to reconized as the "Behind the birds" a reflection of hard work, not a reflection of howmuch I payed for um, but where I personally have takenum over a period of time. Thats it Im big on "OWNERSHIP", and "PRIDE".. Truly "you can buy a car or you could build one"Dosent take away from the fact that I bought a car before" I just perffer to buildum",
Square.
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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George R.
1093 posts
Oct 23, 2008
3:24 PM
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Thanks Booker
Since I have been in several Comps with animals , I have found that the people that do good most of the time are the ones that were able to aquire the best stock that was available , Horses , Birds Roosters,Pigeons, Dogs,.
I believe if a person wants to buy a good race horse he would be better of buying from a Sire that was Battle Tested (Raced) the same with Dogs (hounds) Or Pigeons.
Comp. tested Stock is always a good way to start. That dont mean that stock from a person that dont compete is not good BUT the % are in your Favor whan you aquire stock from a Proven source.
And congrats on getting your region together.
The Novice
George
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spanky
620 posts
Oct 23, 2008
5:20 PM
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TRUE THAT GEORGE I ONLY BEEN FLYING BIRDS OUT OF A KIT BOX SINCE 05. FIRST TIME FLYING THE F/F AND I'M ONE OF THE CUALIFLIERS FOR 9A. AND SOME ONE TOLD ME HOW DID THAT HAPPEN (HOW DID I CUALIFIED) HATERS NOT EVEN A CONGRATS BUT IS ALL GOOD. I JUST DID NOT WANT 2 SPEND 20 OR 30 YEARS BUILDING A FAMILY. JUST WENT WITH THE BIRDS THAT WORK FOR ME. JOHNNY SMITH,HIGGENS & SOME OF ABELS STUFF.
SPANKY
SGVS
Last Edited by on Oct 23, 2008 5:22 PM
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George R.
1094 posts
Oct 23, 2008
5:29 PM
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Thats right Spanks congats and good job !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There are Guys that had Birds for over 20 or 30 YEARS and will NEVER qualify.
The way the BOP's are no one has 20 or 30 years left of
Flying Pigeons.
The novice
George
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Alohazona
465 posts
Oct 23, 2008
10:03 PM
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Spanky,
Congratulations!You are on the right track....Aloha,Todd
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PR_rollers
1806 posts
Oct 23, 2008
10:04 PM
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Congrats spanky..
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Ralph
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elopez
1773 posts
Oct 23, 2008
10:48 PM
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Good Job Spanky. I have to look out for you next year. I know you'll be coming for my trophies. lol
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
http://lopezloft22.bravehost.com/
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gabe454
1307 posts
Oct 23, 2008
10:55 PM
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Hey spanky congrats you made now go and kick some A@#!!
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454
TRIPLE "G" LOFT
L.P.R.C
Last Edited by on Oct 23, 2008 10:55 PM
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quickspin
869 posts
Oct 23, 2008
10:56 PM
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Good to hear that Spanky. Good Luck
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SALAS LOFT
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gotspin7
1987 posts
Oct 24, 2008
4:27 AM
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Big Congrats Spanky.
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Sal Ortiz
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Square
541 posts
Oct 24, 2008
9:18 AM
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Good stuff Spanky!! Yea im flying Tommrow..well see what, happens we will only have on qualifyer that because we only have 12 kits.. Next year I hope for it to be bigger...
Square.
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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spanky
624 posts
Oct 24, 2008
4:15 PM
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THANKS FELLAS WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS ON NOV. 4th.
EFREN YOU KNOW I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE AFTER THE THROPHY. YOU GOT THE HOLE CLUB AFTER IT. I JUST HAVE TO WORK HARDER TO GET IT. AND YOU GANNA HAVE TO WORK HARDER 2 KEEP IT. LOL
SQUARE GOOD LUCK ON YOUR FLY 2MORO.
SPANKY
SGVS
Last Edited by on Oct 24, 2008 4:15 PM
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smoke747
1370 posts
Oct 29, 2008
12:59 AM
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He's right Efren, it's harder to keep it but you have to capture it first, so you have a head start on everyone else in your club. My club owes me 2 duplicates of the perpetual trophy for every three years that I won the club competition in a row. HARD WORK ON YOUR FAMILY OF BIRDS DOES PAY OFF. When trying to get that trophy from Efren, concentrate on improving your birds instead of on winning and you'll be on his back.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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elopez
1786 posts
Oct 29, 2008
8:55 AM
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I know its going to be tough holding on to the trophy, but I'm up for it.
" When trying to get that trophy from Efren, concentrate on improving your birds instead of on winning and you'll be on his back"
Hopefully way back...lol
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
http://lopezloft22.bravehost.com/
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