3757
970 posts
Oct 19, 2008
6:08 AM
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This is a topic that has burned my tail for 30 years and I cannot hold it any longer. You see guys come to your house and you fly the birds, they spin their cula's off and he says the birds spin great but your birds are not the correct type. Then you go to his house and he has 5 generations of birds on a pedigree not flown! Please tell me this has not happened to you! Then to top it off he puts 1000 pigeons in a cage explaining why this is the correct body type. Now, this happened to me 30 years ago and again two years ago.
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gotspin7
1958 posts
Oct 19, 2008
6:16 AM
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Laron, that happend to me 11 years ago and that is the reason why I am a hard a$$ on the people that do not fly. To make a long story short the guy had not flown in 12 years and talked about them like the birds were still burning the sky!..lol.. Guys please fly your birds before you put them up, they do got wings you know!...lol
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Sal Ortiz
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PR_rollers
1789 posts
Oct 21, 2008
11:01 AM
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like Sal said they got wings... and two little feet to land ..
----------fly them and fly them hard...and keep your eye on the roll at all time..
Ralph
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TT
56 posts
Oct 21, 2008
11:27 AM
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I just dont get it,
Its a performing bird.
Its just like putting a bunch of racing homers in a loft and saying
"Aww dont those look pretty"
Strike a pose......Click .......click
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Tony.
Calgary, AB
Last Edited by on Oct 21, 2008 11:28 AM
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kopetsa
1922 posts
Oct 21, 2008
11:34 AM
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I like how birds look in the air and I like them on the perch too! Birmingham rollers are perfect for everything! :)
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Andrew C.
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smoke747
1357 posts
Oct 21, 2008
12:33 PM
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Laron great topic! I've stocked birds from the nest before. Some have what I am looking for in type as young birds so I stock them. Not many, maybe 1 or 2 every other year, but I do fly al the siblings to the bird/s in question just to test my eye. I've picked birds out befor and flew them, they spun and they are now hawk food. what a waste. But you need to see some fly no matter what their pedigree says. peds don't fly and a ped don't make a bird a better producer or spinner or worth more.
IF A CHAMPION PERFORMER CAN'T REPRODUCE EQUAL TO ITS SELF, ITS PERFORMANCE WONT MATTER ONCE HE/SHE IS IN THE STOCK LOFT?
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
Last Edited by on Oct 21, 2008 3:03 PM
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Ballrollers
1536 posts
Oct 21, 2008
12:54 PM
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Yes it has happened, Laron...maybe not exaclty, but the same basic thing.....putting too much emphasis on type and/or pedigree rather than performance.
Cliff
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ANEWKITT
33 posts
Oct 21, 2008
1:06 PM
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Way to put it down Keith.
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warpspeed
62 posts
Oct 21, 2008
1:23 PM
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im glad you brought it up laron, i strongly believe that why the are so many bad birds out their that dont spin correctly to many people stocking birds for type or out the nest because of pedigree. picking for stock without performance doesnt work for horse dogs or roosters why would it work in pigeons.
abel
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3757
975 posts
Oct 21, 2008
3:14 PM
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Thanks All as I have wanted to speak about this for years.
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Square
533 posts
Oct 21, 2008
3:43 PM
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I think we will see alot more of people stocking birds off the top. The main reason is the B>O>P deal. Alot of serious roller guys know their family and how they devolope, so it makes sence to stock the birds from their pictuclar family to have a sence of security. Its crazy to think you could fly a bird out to back up your stock, with the way things are going now. I personally stocked 4 this year alone without flying, this is because I know what they do and I dont wanna risk loosing them. Well see how it all come togeather. I now have the abilty to hold over 80kit birds.; WOW!!!! Ill be ready in 18months....LOL hope to see u there...
Square.
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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Indy
37 posts
Oct 21, 2008
4:21 PM
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I think some experianced breeders can do it from time to time because they know their bloodlines and know what their line has produced but even then I am sure they would not want to do it for more than one generation at a time. They might keep young birds out of a proven pair but I would say any serious flyer will fly the wings off of the babies out of these unflown breeders before stocking them.
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JohnL
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Oldfart
854 posts
Oct 21, 2008
5:17 PM
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Hey All, My sky is full of sharks and I do not want to mindlessly feed them! However I'm at a point where I must know 100% where my breeding program is. So, they fly, it's just that simple. I have a performance breed, not show birds, not something pretty that sits in a cage. I try my very best to be smart enough to minimize the risk, but they fly.
Thom
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DeepSpinLofts
1046 posts
Oct 21, 2008
5:41 PM
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Incredible Professor!
All I can say is that I have never exibited a roller breeder/trainer/flyer/put 1000 pigeons in a cage and explain why this or that was the correct body type.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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George R.
1089 posts
Oct 21, 2008
6:57 PM
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I have always told anyone who asked me "AIR TESTED " Birds are the best to breed from "
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CSRA
1703 posts
Oct 28, 2008
8:21 AM
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Laron i am with you on that lol thaose are show pen guys that stuff kills me lol
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COYOTE33
146 posts
Oct 28, 2008
10:06 AM
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everything that you guys say is true, but dont fly your blood away either, i've seen guys fly so much and lose so much that they dont have any younsters out of one line and can't get it anymore. now their crying and checking peds to see if they have anymore of that blood and there is no more blood left, so keep a couple on the side, dont fly your blood away!
coyote
Last Edited by on Oct 29, 2008 8:34 AM
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Scott
1212 posts
Oct 28, 2008
12:24 PM
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Blood ? put the peds away and fly the hell out of them,no pigeon is worth too much not to be flown out hard.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Oct 28, 2008 12:25 PM
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DeepSpinLofts
1053 posts
Oct 28, 2008
5:44 PM
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I agree with Scott.
You must fly out your birds in order to closely examine their quality of aerial performance (rolling capabilities).
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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brudahpete
35 posts
Oct 28, 2008
5:59 PM
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I guess I'm oblivious to your problem as I've only met 1 or 2 fanciers in my life! I do agree with you though, birds are birds, if you don't fly them, you do them a dis-service. You do your program a dis-service as well. Flying, to me, is what it's all about.
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Rule #1: Don't build your loft anywhere near your wife's clothesline....
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COYOTE33
147 posts
Oct 29, 2008
6:17 AM
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Im not saying not to fly scott or marc just make sure you have something out of the family before its all gone whats so hard about that. if your main cock dies and you dont have a hen or a cock out of it then what will you do? with the hawk problems we have, you can look around and everything is gone, that all im saying.
coyote
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maxspin
291 posts
Oct 29, 2008
7:10 AM
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Maybe after 20 years of experience with a family of birds you could know your family well enough to stock an unflown bird.
Coyote,
If you are loosing all of your birds to the hawks you need to understand the term lock down.
Keith
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COYOTE33
148 posts
Oct 29, 2008
8:33 AM
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And you don't think i know that keith! all im speaking on is taking precaution not just stocking birds, whats so hard about that? everybody should want to keep a little stash, you don't want to spin all of your money. maybe you might understand that illustration! And this could very well be another subject.
coyote
Last Edited by on Oct 29, 2008 8:35 AM
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Square
547 posts
Oct 29, 2008
11:52 AM
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I Agree bird's have to be flown out.. And by no means do I agree with prettie birds in a cage just because they look like the type. For me Ive tested my families in the air for 10years+, no odd pigeons just my picticular family, I know what I need in my loft from experience and that dosent need to be airtested in every case. Everyone needs to know what they want, and if you dont then by all means fly the heck outtaum. Ive herd and read of people being able to pick a champion off the ground, Is this the baisis of todays lawn shows? I wonder if thease people would pick the champ of the ground then air test it later? Or would they depend on their years of expertice and see the results of this picticular bird they picked off the ground in a breeding program?.. kinda wierd when you think about it,, well atleast for me.
Square.
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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fhtfire
1610 posts
Oct 29, 2008
11:55 AM
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I go by what the bird does in the air...regardless of what it looks like on the perch....My best bird to date in the air and is a very potent breeder to me is not my ideal on the perch..but he produces the goods......One of the ugliest birds I have ever seen....produced rock stars@!!!
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Square
549 posts
Oct 29, 2008
12:17 PM
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LOL, I here that, thats why I think it's such a HOOT going to thease lawn shows... I like to see the diffrence in everyones Ideal, then comes you with your donations to the lawn show in visella...LOL Bird's obviously outta the kit,and fit for work. did they go for more than the unflown squeeker's all prettie in pink..LOL I think you might be on to somthing, a lawn show that flys first then actions off the rollers, from the show pen...HUMMMM...Later bro..
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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j .wanless
442 posts
Oct 29, 2008
12:36 PM
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hi all
ive worked on my birds for 20 years + over .i breed birds with certain traits that i know 100% will roll.but i would never stock one without flying it first.as for me theres rolling + theres rolling.and only the best rollers go to the stock loft.
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deano
115 posts
Oct 29, 2008
1:49 PM
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well said john select your stock from the air its got to be the best way
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Velo99
1928 posts
Nov 24, 2008
2:53 PM
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I am going to list the IFs of stocking an unflown bird.
If you have been breeding and flying for a period of over ten years with the same basic family of birds. You should know who has the goods.
If the percentages have grown to 65% or better every season in the last five years.
If you have kept the appropriate records and have the gene pool in place there should, I say should, be enough genetic material to breed some good birds from unflown birds.
If you are honest with yourself. You`ll breed good birds from the efforts of the previous ifs.
Its all about the gene pool if you breed unflown birds. It isnt something that happens overnight. It takes at least five years of flying and breeding the same family of birds. Not a bird that "my homie gave me" thats from the same guy. That aint the same thing by any stretch of the imagination.
Every time one brings in a new bird(s),the clock starts all over again on the five years you owe the birds.
jmho
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V99
Straight up,no chaser.
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\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__66___()_)\__\
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Square
603 posts
Nov 24, 2008
3:32 PM
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WOW you said it,, "Bringing in a new bird starts the clock over agian", Some people ive met dont relize that. it's the time invested.. If you do get a new family reguardless of how good they are it's gonna take time to maintain or make better...Ther is a young Club Member like around 10yrs old, he has held on to every bird he has gottn from me,, and he wants more>>LOL and ive agreed to give him a kit of rollers with the kitbox,,this spring the only catch was that I wouldent give him another pigeon till he turns 18(Withen Reason)...LOL he's all for it...
Square
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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Velo99
1929 posts
Nov 24, 2008
6:11 PM
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There ya go.
Now teach him how to breed them.
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V99
Straight up,no chaser.
___ ~_____
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__66___()_)\__\
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RodSD
64 posts
Nov 24, 2008
6:54 PM
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There is a reason why we have a sky. It is a place where you can tests your birds. That is their first test before stocking. Maybe stocking without seeing them fly is just guessing. Your mom's food may look good, but it is not a guarantee that it taste well. LOL!
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2008 6:55 PM
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brudahpete
216 posts
Nov 24, 2008
6:58 PM
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Right on! SD that was gospel right there!
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JMUrbon
622 posts
Nov 24, 2008
8:49 PM
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We fly these birds and label them as a performance breed. For the life of me I cant understand why a breeder would stock a bird without putting it in the air. Now not to sound condescending but I think there are special circumstances that could come into play that might make it understandable to me. Loosing a great pair to circumstances out of your control. All things equal I believe all birds should have to earn their way into the stock loft. You stand a much better chance of moving your breeding program forward by choosing great birds from the air than you do by choosing them from the perch.Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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viper
39 posts
Nov 24, 2008
9:05 PM
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I think everybody for the most part puts to much on picking stock birds.Better to keep the numbers down and raise more from them.Rollers are for the air.Do you raise more good kit birds or stock birds?I will pull 2 pair from my kit this yaer 2 04 birds and 2 05 birds if I need them in the kit they go back to flying.Blake
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katyroller
329 posts
Nov 24, 2008
9:12 PM
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I have stocked a brother and sister right out the nest, never flown. They were out of a foundation pair that was drying up and I wanted to keep the blood strong. I flew out all the young and had they not had roll in them I would have pulled the pair and flew them out. I'm not suggesting everyone should make a practice of doing this but I believe there are times when it is acceptable if the offspring are going to be flown out.
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roller alley
29 posts
Nov 24, 2008
10:10 PM
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im with you.i will stock a few out the nest and i will mate brother and sister in hope to duplicate their father.his speed was exceptional
L.J
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Square
606 posts
Nov 25, 2008
12:32 PM
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This is what makes this Hobbie great ,, Diversity in opion..All I want to do is produce and enjoy my flock/family of rollers. And with that in place, do good in comp comparing my rollers to the top flyers in the world.. How I or anyone makes this happen is up to that person..Unless the have a "steering wheel" in their back...LOL The outcome is in the sky..reguardless of how they get there... Truly
Booker
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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