Ballrollers
1556 posts
Oct 30, 2008
1:06 PM
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List,
I have been reading several opinions about the worth of flying birds that were not the best. Some believe watching a sub-par kit is a total waste of our valuable time. Some believe the judge should only judge our better kits. People, even the best flyer among us does not win every fly. Even the best flyer among us, has had his share of DQ's and low scores. It is all part of the learning curve and what we must all experience for ourselves. There is a danger in discounting the learning process. We learn something every time we put up our birds. We learn something every time we set up a kit; everytime a judge evaluates one of our kits, we learn "something." I have stood by the shoulder of Master Flyers that were flying 2 kits. I asked them which will get the better score. To a man, none of them KNEW which would outscore the other. "That is the judges job, not mine," is the usual response. And yet, there are times when they say, "This kit ain't my best by a long shot." Yet they still enter them....set them up....fly them. And even among the most experienced men I know, the typical response is, " I shoulda done...so and so...." We learn something with every fly. Fly every day you can. Fly in every competition you can and last but not least, fly every kit you can. You learn nothing from a DNF, nothing, zippo, nada. Something is almost always learned from even a score of "0" or "DQ". Some of the most valuable lessons can learned during the 20 minutes a judge is watching your kits, regardless of the final score. There is much more to the competition game than just earning qualifiers. The future of our competition and our hobby is built upon those mediochre rookie flies by newbies.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Oct 30, 2008 1:45 PM
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brudahpete
42 posts
Oct 30, 2008
1:32 PM
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Sir, you are indeed a sage!
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Rule #1: Don't build your loft anywhere near your wife's clothesline....
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Santandercol
3306 posts
Oct 30, 2008
6:46 PM
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Right on Cliff!Very encouraging post.
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
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KiddenAround
196 posts
Oct 30, 2008
8:03 PM
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Brudahpete -- you sound a lot like Doc Holliday on Tombstone. lol
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-- Laura
Professional Thrill Seeker
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silver tail
553 posts
Oct 31, 2008
7:44 AM
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Cliff this is a very good post and all of us in the hobie need to be preaching this to new people in the sport.
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SiDLoVE
313 posts
Oct 31, 2008
3:05 PM
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Cliff, thats what the club flies are for the chit chat and do everything your talking about!!
Competetion day is SHOWTIME, Dont waste peoples time and money if it is not nessary, especially if each guys lives 2hrs apart and everyone wants to fly early and you got 15 flyers to go, and 3 days to do it all.Uususally the Judge cannot stay for 1 week as you are trying to say Cliff, Each Flyer will decide if the 2nd kit will be flown as i indictaed in my last post, So dont waste anybodys time and money if it is not nessary,Time Management is involved to get the judge back to the airport and back home cause he has a job like everyone else does. Thanks
DjSid
Last Edited by on Oct 31, 2008 3:07 PM
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Ballrollers
1567 posts
Nov 01, 2008
7:36 PM
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Sid,
No one that I know thinks the NBRC regions should fly by the WC policy. There is nothing in writing to indicate that the NBRC has a 50% kits flown. rule. Why should any region think such a thing? WHY? If you care to glance at the fly records from 2007, you will see that a large majority of the regions thought, it is WAS NECESSARY to fly the kits entered. And they flew those kits in regions that were much larger and less flyer dense and each had their equal share of BOPS. Those regions can't all be under the impression that the NBRC has a 50% kits flown rule, can they? These regional flys are where guys learn time management, attention to details, how to feed and condition their kits. These regional flys are a dress rehearsal for the finals. We should not discount these flys or any kits entered. I am sorry if you think it is too muck work or a waste of your time. But let me tell you, not all kits in the finals are worth watching either. But we do it, we go to each qualifiers house, regardless of the weather or the hawks; the judge evaluates his birds, the hawks are ever present and the airline tickets are expensive. BUT WE DO IT! And until something changes... each region should do it too. Is it fair for one region to fly 30 kits and earn 3 qualifiers and another region to fly 17 kits and get 3 qualifiers? The flyers in the region that busted their butts to fly every kit entered don't think so....
Cliff
Last Edited by on Nov 02, 2008 4:23 PM
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BA Rollers
103 posts
Nov 01, 2008
10:32 PM
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Cliff, ultimately it doesn't matter what another region "thinks". With few exceptions, the NBRC and annual fly are not popularity contests..lol. Until the day comes when the rules are amended to clarify specifics such as minimim kits flown, etc., then all this chit-chat about flying and not flying is just opinions.
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BA Rollers
104 posts
Nov 02, 2008
8:43 AM
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Cliff, as I have said before, I don't care what people in another region think of the people in my region or another region, nor what they think of the way things are done in another region. If they get too riled up, it just signifys they are a bunch of drama queen Jerry Springer-ites looking for something to bitch about. I'm one of the guys who stands firm by the decision that if regions aren't maximizing their qualifier potential by paying for two kits each, then they are working at a loss. It is usually the RD that determines how the region wants to operate in this event. The rules are the rules and they are the rules. The poeple in other regions who whine about other regions not flying all their kits can just keep on whining because it will change nothing. If I was RD I'd tell them to whine to someone who gives a shit or get the rules amended to better clarify the issue of flyers and flown. I have no problem with improving the rules. But I also have no problem with a region that works within the rules to maximize its potential. That's good business sense. We can go round and round about this Cliff, but I stand firm on the side with the guys and regions that maximize their potential for performance irregardless of how many kits are flown. Bottom line--there are no rules that say how many kits have to be flown. So from here on out, anything arguing to the contrary and disparaging against the members of other regions (probably out of jealousy :)) is just opinions. And you know what they say about opinions and assholes right? LOL>
Last Edited by on Nov 02, 2008 8:45 AM
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Ballrollers
1571 posts
Nov 02, 2008
10:36 AM
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BA,
That is a very fair assessment of the situation as it stands today. There is a difference of opinions on this issue, but neither side is all right or all wrong. I believe you are 100% right in that each region should utilize every kit they can. Where we differ, is on if the flyers should be ENCOURAGED to fly or accept the idea that it is not "necessary" to fly the kits entered in order to get an extra qualifier or two. Looking at the problems with BOPS, high feed costs, high fuel costs and things of that nature, this difference of opinions found in the decades old debate over "kits-flown" or "kits-paid" is really a very small inconvenience, however divisive or hotly contested it is. We are not to first go 'round on this particular issue. Bit with each of these discussions, our understandings with one another over these issues, becomes clearer. Opinions and assholes? Yep! Goes without saying, each one of us has one. Thanks for taking the time to post yours.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Nov 02, 2008 10:36 AM
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brudahpete
59 posts
Nov 02, 2008
12:34 PM
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You know, recently, I have read posts from newbies to this hobby that have been disappointed with the depth of the roll of their current birds. I'm glad this thread was started to encourage those newcomers to keep what they have and build their program with breeding. This hobby isn't one that you can expect perfection right out of the box. Every bird is unique as well as every kit. To newcomers to the hobby of roller pigeons, build your program by breeding. Tony has proven birds for sale. Others in this hobby have proven birds, you can always improve what you have through breeding and learning from some of these guys on this site who have a lifetime of expertise. Our whole hobby and the future of the breed depends on the upcoming generation of fanciers. Fly your birds and improve them with time and patience and it WILL pay off! I don't compete with anyone and never have, but I love this hobby. My personal goal is to have the quality of bird that can be revered by the rest of you in the roller world. I can't do that by not flying what I have and improving them through careful breeding and work.
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Rule #1: Don't build your loft anywhere near your wife's clothesline....
Last Edited by on Nov 02, 2008 12:42 PM
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fhtfire
1625 posts
Nov 02, 2008
3:35 PM
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Cliff,
I am trying to bite my tongue...but you are killing me...whats your damn problem. You wont put this thing to rest...Bring it to the EC for a vote...I will fight it tooth and nail to keep it the way it is. RIght not nothing is wrong but babies crying.
Now...here is my problem with your comments...you make it sound like the regions that have the DNF...lets just say 9B...flat out..and not beat around the bush...now you make it sound like we are not giving the fliers a chance to fly the second kit and the RD is shutting them down and discouraging them from flying...because of inferior kits....the fliers themselves make the choice to fly the second kit...I will say it again..ALL FLIERS ARE ENCOURAGED TO FLY THE SECOND KIT>>>>THEY chose not too. I would love for everyone to fly the second kit...but again...youngbirds flying around in circles is a waste of time..but if a flier said he wanted to fly a second kit of young birds...we would be there with bells on.
Now...you bring up the point of the kits that DQ in the finals etc...and maybe we should not fly those kits because they were not good.....but the kits in the finals are usually good kits that have an OFF DAY>.....most of the kits that the FLIERS CHOSE NOT TO FLY.....are not there A-team that could have a bad day...when they tell me they will not score a point...and to save the gas money....then they most likely will not.....I could tell you right now..my young bird team would maybe score 50 on there best day..how do I know..>I FLY THEM >>>.
So compare apples to apples.....and second...I DONT GIVE A SHIT what the other regions think....I do care when a Regional Director wont shut up and keep s bring the same thing up over and over about DNF and how the HONEST regions did not have DNF or pay for a second kit and the DISHONEST push the rules and did not fly the second kits.
Each region runs it different..and 9B has done it the same way since I have been flying with 4 different RD's.....so cliff.....TALK TO THE HAND!!!
I have yet to see one EMAIL from you to the EC to clear this up or take a vote to change it or leave it the same. ...So quit flopping your jaws...and belittling regions and send it to the EC.....
Rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by on Nov 02, 2008 3:37 PM
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Ballrollers
1572 posts
Nov 02, 2008
4:11 PM
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Pete,
Glad you enjoy this Roller community. Sometimes we can fight like cats and dogs but we all appreciate our Rollers.
Cliff
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brudahpete
66 posts
Nov 02, 2008
4:15 PM
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Right on, I do value the huge amount of information that you guys allow others to learn by question and answer here. Tony really has something with this forum.
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Ballrollers
1573 posts
Nov 02, 2008
4:22 PM
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Paul,
I think it would be best for any further discussion of this issue between you and me to be private. As I said, I value you as an RD and we may have already jeopardized that. I am not making any direct references to you, personally, or to your region in my discussions. I am talking about a broad, philosophical approach to competition....primarily in the NBRC, but also in the World Cup, as well. This is getting blown way out of proportion and things are being taken personal. If you want to bring this before the EC for clarification, please do so. I do think it needs to be addressed, but I told you that I would not push it with the EC and I will honor that. If I were to present something to the EC for clarification of this issue, I feel certain that you would, at this point, feel that I was attacking your region and you personally, so I don't think that is such a good idea at this point in time. I am happy to discuss it with you, privately, any time. You got my number and e-mail.
Cliff
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Oldfart
871 posts
Nov 02, 2008
4:23 PM
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I'm backyard pure and simple and do not feel quilified to comment on this thread.
I just wanted to say, Laura, you are a breath of fresh air, and you crack me up!
grandpaw, Thom
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PR_rollers
1870 posts
Nov 02, 2008
7:05 PM
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Thom I second that lMAO...she says just the right things ..she just better bring that siren back to my island..we are short on those..lol..
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Ralph
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kopetsa
2080 posts
Nov 02, 2008
7:21 PM
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What's a DQ? lol I'm not 100% sure?
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Andrew C.
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Scott
1233 posts
Nov 02, 2008
7:54 PM
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Paul,please quit teasing the window licking dit dit do ,its not nice !!
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Nov 02, 2008 7:58 PM
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KiddenAround
205 posts
Nov 03, 2008
7:25 PM
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Whew weeee! I wish I knew more about the rules so I could comprehend this post, but one thing I know about it is that this thread needs a fire hose turned on it to cool it down! ;)
Thanks, Grandpaw Thom and Ralph! Y'all made my night.
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-- Laura
Professional Thrill Seeker
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Scott
1235 posts
Nov 03, 2008
7:28 PM
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Laura , please don't feed the monkey !!
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Nov 03, 2008 7:30 PM
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KiddenAround
207 posts
Nov 03, 2008
7:41 PM
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Oh, Scott, I'm sorry. I will behave. ;)
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-- Laura
Professional Thrill Seeker
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Opinionated Blowhard
113 posts
Nov 03, 2008
11:55 PM
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In high school I read a book called of mice and men. In the book is George and his friend Leny. Leny is retarded. Leny is obsessed that him and George will get a farm and raise rabbits. No matter what the conversaton is about Lenny will talk about rabbits 'tell me about the rabbits George tell me about the rabbits.' There is never anything else in his mind that Lenny thinks about. Kevin
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Ballrollers
1577 posts
Nov 04, 2008
7:02 AM
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Mr. Blowhard,
Perhaps you should start a thread about rabbits.
Cliff
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