Oldfart
879 posts
Nov 12, 2008
3:27 PM
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Hey All, How important is wing posistion? Does it take precedence over a bird that has volicity with style,and is multi-depth with good control? The bird I'm speaking of kits very well and is frequent, tight and fast but has an axel wing position. Is this fault enough to exclude him from the stock loft? Will the wing position possible change for the better with age or remain the same?
Thanks for the help, Thom
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Mount Airy Lofts
813 posts
Nov 12, 2008
3:53 PM
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I've been told the hardest thing to breed for is style. Once you lose it in a line, it is gone. Velocity, you can all ways put back in.
Can't tell you if that statement holds true or not yet. I'm not far enough into my program to see that much of a difference in the loss of any style and velocity.
What I can tell you that if a line breeds true for a certain style, it is safe bet that you will see a ton more.
Over at my loft, I rate style higher than velocity. All tho the goal is to have the highest wings possible with the velocity to go with it.
In the end, it all boils down to what you like and what you want more of.
Thor
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It's all about the friends we make :)
Last Edited by on Nov 12, 2008 3:54 PM
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Alohazona
478 posts
Nov 12, 2008
3:54 PM
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oldfart,
My experience is the wing position will not change.It's the body type/muscling that sets the position of the wings.I personally would not breed it.What goes in must come out....Aloha,Todd
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2899 posts
Nov 12, 2008
3:56 PM
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Hey Thom, go to my thread "Breeders Challenge" and read it again in light of your question...breed this bird you are talking about to a mate that has good wing position, breed several youngsters from the pair and look for any that have the velocity, control depth that you like PLUS the good wing position.
Sounds like the bird you are referring to already has several desired traits, now you want to add proper wing position TO ITS offspring. That's appropriate in my book.
Remember, few birds meet the "Ideal", if we only bred from birds that were considered Ideal, how many fanciers would have breeders in their stock lofts? LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Oldfart
880 posts
Nov 12, 2008
5:24 PM
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Hey All, Yet again, I failed to pose my question properly. This particular bird is very young. I shuffled my pairings last breeding season in order to maximize the prodogy from my best producing cock. From this second pairing I was able to raise two cocks and seven hens. The oldest cock is the better of the two. It has the attributes of the younger but better wing position. My question should have been. Allowing for the age of the bird in question, (four and one half months). Is it possible that it's wing position will improve? Does wing position develope as a bird ages? It is a very enteraining bird and even if not breeding stock, worthwhile as a kit bird. Thanks to all for the input!
Thom
Last Edited by on Nov 12, 2008 5:48 PM
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
76 posts
Nov 12, 2008
6:36 PM
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That bird should be flown in the kit if you thank it has all that you are looking for in a kit bird as far as deep, velocity ,kitting ability, but if off on style should not be put breeding pen.
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sippi
593 posts
Nov 12, 2008
8:02 PM
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Thom, one thing I wouldnt put in the stock loft is an axle wing bird. That said at four or five months I wouldnt judge him yet. Even A wing birds can produce axle wing birds but the odds lessen if you use an axle wing in stock.
Evaluate him again in eighteen months.
Sippi
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Oldfart
882 posts
Nov 13, 2008
3:36 AM
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Thanks everyone, This year I have enough birds to be able to keep a holdover kit. I'm just going to fly them for as long as I can before lock down. Then back out as early as possible in the spring. Again thanks to all!
Thom
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quickspin
909 posts
Nov 14, 2008
8:14 AM
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SALAS LOFT
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Flipmode
250 posts
Nov 14, 2008
8:34 AM
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Hey Oldfart, Only time will tell. At 4 and 1/2 months old I think hes doing just fine! Let him get another 3 months in under his belt and his might blow your mind! Keep pushing him. And let us know how he turns out!...
Hey Quickspin thats a cool illustration!
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Flipmode
255 posts
Nov 14, 2008
10:59 AM
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Thanks 0042. Hey Smoke it look like the wings stick out slightly or either it's just a bigger bird?...
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CSRA
1714 posts
Nov 14, 2008
11:12 AM
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whats up flipmode
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Flipmode
256 posts
Nov 14, 2008
11:23 AM
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Whats goin on big Steve? I'm just at home relaxing today. Gonna get out in the backyard in a minute and scrape some perches and do a lil cleaning b4 it gets too hot... You got everything over there locked up for the year?
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smoke747
1384 posts
Nov 14, 2008
11:26 AM
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Flipmode I was asking what do you think the cause for the difference is.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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Flipmode
257 posts
Nov 14, 2008
11:39 AM
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Yeah Smoke I see what you mean.... Well I think the combination (breast width and wing length) definatly plays a part in determining whether that H will be tight or wide. The tighter one (smaller breast & longer wings) looks a whole lot better. The wide one is like a fat dude with short arms!
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smoke747
1388 posts
Nov 14, 2008
11:44 AM
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Flip, fat dude with short arms...LOL
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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smoke747
1389 posts
Nov 14, 2008
11:46 AM
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flip, ineed chairs for tomorrow. can you help?
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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Flipmode
258 posts
Nov 14, 2008
11:51 AM
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No problem, I will have (25) of em there at 9:30am
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smoke747
1391 posts
Nov 14, 2008
11:56 AM
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Flip, cool thanks.
Kopesta, the () style is the best but very rare.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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SiDLoVE
324 posts
Nov 14, 2008
12:10 PM
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If the Front arm bone is long enough that goes to the breast is a indication the bird can kick it up for the H style and better...small arm bone it cant get the wing up in front therefore its a axle style. Yea big dude with small arms...HAHA..
DjSid
Last Edited by on Nov 14, 2008 12:13 PM
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Scott
1243 posts
Nov 14, 2008
12:24 PM
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axle = cull - wing position can improve depending on condition, but not dramatic, don't stock it.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Nov 14, 2008 12:27 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2904 posts
Nov 14, 2008
12:39 PM
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CORRECTION: I was responding to "axel" as ok to breed, after seeing that graphic posted up above, I see I was thinking "X" wing. My bad...DON'T breed from an AXEL wing.
I can see why so many responded! LOL What a putz I looked! LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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kopetsa
2197 posts
Nov 14, 2008
3:24 PM
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Mine are like wide H mostly..
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
Last Edited by on Nov 14, 2008 3:24 PM
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