THISROLL
74 posts
Nov 15, 2008
5:50 AM
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Just wanted to know what strain / line you think are the best. The one you have?? Just Wondering...
p.s im asking bcas i finally know what strain/line means lol
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quality
32 posts
Nov 15, 2008
6:18 AM
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There are lots of excellent strains out there. I've seen plenty of them. You must bear in mind when someone aquires a certain strain of roller & starts his own breeding program, those birds now become their strain.
My birds go back to english stuff, but I have been breeding them my way for 15 years, these birds are now my strain. Even though I have never brought anything else into the blood.
And yes I am very happy with my strain.
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brudahpete
143 posts
Nov 15, 2008
6:37 AM
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I think that my ultimate desire as a roller guy is to make my birds my own. There is no other compliment greater than to have people attach your name to a strain of birds in this hobby. Many never see it in this lifetime but it should be every fancier's dream.
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Flipmode
261 posts
Nov 15, 2008
3:42 PM
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Hey I think my Strain/Line is the BEST! (Vida/Jones Strain)!lol.
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silver tail
599 posts
Nov 15, 2008
6:08 PM
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Thisroll the truth the awnser to your question is simple the Best strain is the one you make work for you every strain is different some similar but they all don't work the same. What I am saying is some birds work better under different presure's and different trainings tech. So in all that said you have to find the family that works with your life style do you have time to work the bird,early birds due to high lost to BOP, high flying low flying to many wires. etc.
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Windjammer Loft
496 posts
Nov 16, 2008
9:28 AM
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Iam gona go out on a limb on this one.....lol. I don't think their is a "BEST" family /strain out here.. To be honest their are alot of good family/strains being flown nowadays.. It's what "YOU" do with that particular family/
strain that you have that makes them good or not. Personelly, I started with a "good" family of birds. But,for one reason or another they just didn't work for me. So I did more research and got a "good" family that is working out perfect for me now. Remember, what works for one guy, may not work for another guy. I think its called "Management"...lol
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2008 9:30 AM
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Scott
1249 posts
Nov 16, 2008
10:26 AM
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There is no "best" strain, only particular birds that can be built off of.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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George R.
1149 posts
Nov 16, 2008
8:59 PM
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i believe that the strain I got must be one of the top out there..
You want to know why ? because I am probably the worst pigeon trainer there is in the hobby yet these birds continue to perform..
The novice
george
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Alohazona
484 posts
Nov 17, 2008
9:09 AM
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Flipmode,
Your birds are the best lookin' team I've seen on the perch,with the pictures I've seen posted here in the last 4 years.They remind me a lot of Rick Mee's W/C kit.Your on a roll with those bird's,[excuse the pun],lol.
Mike ,between Keith London and yourself,I see top 10 in 2009 W/C,if not the top seat.But lookout you have Paul Fullerton in your rear view mirror.
I have an intuition about these things,pretty much called Rich Haye's top seat 2 years ago.....Aloha,Todd
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Flipmode
262 posts
Nov 17, 2008
10:22 AM
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Hey Todd, I just had that same dream! lol. Flipmode the 2009 W/C winner???? Man that sounds so sweet. I think im gonna go and take another nap so I can have that dream again! lol
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Square
572 posts
Nov 17, 2008
10:48 AM
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Yea quality, I agree with you , I have about 10years+ behind my english rollers, and I loveum. This is kinda a hard question, but for me it's what ever makes you happy,, dosent really matter to much about the strain,,,Just having a good time and being happy with whatever you have..basically for me its the fact that I built my family so pride plays a major Factor. You can buy a better strain for the moment or even the year but you just cant buy time or evaluation over time... thats what makes it hard for me
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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Norm_Knox
230 posts
Nov 17, 2008
11:41 AM
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Guys I think all of us have our own strain of birds. They might originated or came from a certain family, but it is US who manage these birds. So to say there is a best strain is foolish in my book. I think it is greatly do to breeders management that a certain family of birds gets to prosper and get our attention. Lets just concentrate on what they do in air regardles of strain/family, and be VERY VERY VERY selective with our breding stock and produce better (not best, because we all have our own criteria)rollers. Just my opinion ...
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N/A Loft
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fhtfire
1654 posts
Nov 17, 2008
6:09 PM
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This is a quote that I think Tony should use......and I think this pretty much sums up the top strains or families out there......."As good as any and better then many"
So with that being said....there is no such thing as the BEST strain out there.....there is truth to working with the strain that is BEST for you. The fact of the matter is....it is 20% the birds and 80% the flier...that my friend is fact....(see tony 80/20 rule)....you can have the best strain or family in the world and it does not mean crap if you dont manage them right. I think if more fliers would just pick the birds that are right for THEM and not chase a strain name...they would move forward....I fly Mort and Ruby Rollers....do I think they are the best strain...nope....Do I think Higgins are NOPE....Mee...NOPE...they are all top notch well bred strains that need a good driver.....or should I say the right driver.....Picking a strain is like picking what works for you...if you are a formula 1 driver you will not do good in a drag car.....if you are a Mountain Biker (Extreme)..you can't race the Tour de France....so just because they are all cars or bikes...does not mean you can drive them...you need to find what is comfortable for you...
I flew Scott Campbell birds at one time...and I could not keep them consistant....it is not that they are not a top notch strain...they did not fit my style of management....same goes for my Mort and Ruby rollers...I know a guy who got the exact same stock and hated them and even accused me of trying to make a buck...and tricked him and the birds suck....they wont roll.....the fact is...they were not his formula 1 car.....and this happens to all of us...the ones that dont move forward are the ones that keep chasing the name and not staying with what works.
So...again....there is no such thing as the best strain or family.....just find the drivers seat that fits you....just remember too...that the driver seat may not be in a corvette(higgins)...Ferarri (Mee).....it may be Toyota .. the exotic cars need lots of tweaking....but the toyota will get you to the same place and could get you there with less tweaking..
rock and ROLL
Paul
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rtwilliams
253 posts
Nov 18, 2008
4:13 AM
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If someone wants quality birds he has to have two things.
First good stock. Go around and find someone that is willing to help answer question about the birds. See the birds in the air and ,make sure they got what you want. Some like speed, some deep birds. I like to see the whole kit go.
Second stay committed. Like most livestock, it takes time and patience. It takes only breeding what works for you. To get birds that work for you it will take a few years.
I am committed to my Billings/Campbell birds because I have seen them all roll at once. I only have 11 flying in the A kit. But I have seen all 11 roll at the same time, 15 plus feet, with excellent speed and and style. The oldest of these was hatched in March the youngest in Aug. I am excited for them to get older, deeper, and to be joined by 9 of their brothers. 3 of which are in the the B kit. Hatched in Sept.
the other 6 will have to be hatched next year. From these I will find the best that work for me, with my style, and breed from those, possibly even culling the parents. The parents are good birds, but they may only have a few offspring that fit my style. Those offspring that fit my Style are what I a want to builds off of.
JMO
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RT Williams
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brudahpete
171 posts
Nov 18, 2008
5:29 AM
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The best"strain" are the birds you are spending the most time with.... Pigeons are a test of one's patience and thought. You cannot expect to have quality birds even if you have birds from a "good family". You fly them & breed the ones that perform the best & like another post discusses, breed best birds to best birds. a really good kit of birds comes from years of trying. Like all good things, determination, persistence and patience develop the best "strain" in you loft. You'll meet guys who had been working with a particular set of birds for years and suddenly scrap the whole bunch and start over.
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Square
575 posts
Nov 18, 2008
8:44 AM
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The "Sports Car" Will get you there fast, But it wont get you far!!!LOL,,,18wheeler baby, Diesel "LONG HAUL"....LOL
Square..
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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Hector Coya
269 posts
Nov 18, 2008
5:42 PM
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I think the question should be ,who is the best trainer of competition rollers,not what is the best strain,i think you can give a guy,lets say Kieth London or Scott Cambell and guys like that can produce a winning kit whith almost any family with no problem.
Hector Coya-SGVS
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George R.
1151 posts
Nov 18, 2008
6:42 PM
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I would like to go to a pet shop and pick 20 birds and see if a top flyer can make a competive kit out of those twenty Birds i pick.
If someone is up to this Challenge I will buy the Birds and personally deliver them to them.
I think it would be a great accomplishment if someone can do this.
ANY TAKERS Call me at 702-238-2640 and lets get the Ball rolling..
george
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Flipmode
270 posts
Nov 18, 2008
7:01 PM
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lol. Tumblers into champions? George good luck with that one! I think any family/strain of birds would have to have the goods within them first and foremost. You can't make a bird spin that doesn't have it in them!
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George R.
1156 posts
Nov 18, 2008
7:05 PM
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Yeah Mike just getting them to kit and fly would be a BIG accomplishment.
the offer still stands I will hold this offer open and If someone can make a good kit out of the Birds I pick I will give them $500.00 dollers for thier Hard work any TAKERS...
George The Novice
Last Edited by on Nov 18, 2008 7:18 PM
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Hector Coya
270 posts
Nov 18, 2008
7:09 PM
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George
Fred Jakins,has done very well in the last 2 years with his birds that he bought at the Pomona Feed store.
Let me tell you his avarege score has been about 400 a fly.
Last year he flew for the F/F with the CPRC guys and got 2nd place,he was later dicqualified becouse he wasnt a NBRC member when he flew.
Hector Coya
Last Edited by on Nov 18, 2008 7:19 PM
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smoke747
1399 posts
Nov 18, 2008
7:21 PM
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George I'll give it a try if I can pick um.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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Hector Coya
271 posts
Nov 18, 2008
7:26 PM
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Keith,on my first post i never mentioned petshop birds i said other families,i think someone like you can get any other family and fly a real good kit by the end of the year.
But petshop birds make it more challenging LOL.
Hector Coya-SGVS
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Hector Coya
272 posts
Nov 19, 2008
7:02 PM
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George,do you remember Fred Jackins?
Hector Coya-SGVS
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spanky
659 posts
Nov 19, 2008
7:12 PM
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FRED CAN SURE PUT A KIT TOGETHER.
SPANKY
SGVS
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Square
583 posts
Nov 20, 2008
10:03 AM
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Hay Geroge youre are on to somthing,,, But For me to accept this challenge I need some more specifics,,, What shop??,, as we all know people loose bird's to the shop's, and will we be able to pick 20 each?? 20 to get 11? or just 20? I have the room and this could be fun," Who's the best trainer" I can see it now "The Random Roller fly", gotta be careful as some might give a helping hand buy flooding the shops with heat...LOL
Square.
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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George R.
1162 posts
Nov 20, 2008
6:59 PM
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Yes I remember Fred Jenkins he did fly some nice Pigeons.
I remember when I first saw his pigeons , they flew just like the HIggins, Ibarra, Duncun, Parker, Jim Stephens, K. London , Burro Hernandez johhny Smith , ETC,Birds .
they flew low and with a slow wing beat and they broke in clusters( big Breaks).
I have seen many strains of Pigeons and I guess I got fooled by his Birds because I really thought that those Pigeons came from the Reed and Higgins Family of Pigeons .
i like to study the different strains of Birds and the ways they Fly and I Try to imprint traits in my head.
I never did ask him where he got his pigeons from...
the Novice
George
Last Edited by on Nov 20, 2008 7:00 PM
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Hector Coya
273 posts
Nov 20, 2008
8:58 PM
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Yea ,i guess Fred is the exeption to the rule.he bought a bunch of birds from the feed store took them home bred a shit load and has crored higher than you and me put together,he has no family background or history on the breeders,and only paied 5 bucks a bird,,LOL
Anyway he has a hell of a kit.
Hector Coya
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LIL RIC
135 posts
Nov 21, 2008
7:25 AM
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what's up hector hope all is good with you and the family. i judge fred birds and he has some nice bird's like you said nice big brakes. plus nice guy.
lil ric
west side roller loft
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rtwilliams
256 posts
Nov 21, 2008
6:02 PM
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A thought about this topic, for the Competition guys. If your birds are not the best you can get, why do you have them?
Backyard guys get birds to enjoy them and get what makes enjoyment. Competition guys get birds that work their buts off,and if the guy down the street has better birds, I would cull mine and get his.
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RT Williams
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Alohazona
487 posts
Nov 21, 2008
7:03 PM
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RT,
I know guys who have completely scrapped familys to start over with a new one,only to end up in the same place with the new family.Frankly,the family they scrapped had it all.So is it the birds or is it the trainer?I think it is the trainer,you pick up these birds and they were like a hand full of feathers,do you need to rail rollers to skin and bones to perform?Did the same thing to the birds he scrapped.
Some familys get better with time and maturity.Lots of guys either don't offer up that time or just don't have a clue.
The best bird on my property"The Santana cock"started rolling at a year after the moult this year he hits 60 ft. and slingshots back to the kit in his 3rd year.I'll never give up on this family...Aloha,Todd
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rtwilliams
257 posts
Nov 21, 2008
7:18 PM
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Not talking about management, and I agree, poor management is going to ruin any birds,no matter how good they are. Just saying if I were serious about competition, and I kept getting beat by the guy down the street, and observed with my eyes that those birds were better, I would be doing what it took to get a pair from him.
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RT Williams
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Alohazona
488 posts
Nov 21, 2008
10:34 PM
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RT,
Out of curiosity,what line are are you flying.Sometimes taking the best from that family and crossing it into another family is worth trying.
Next breeding season,I will be taking my best Henderson's and breed them to my Ruby stock.Both of these lines are good on their own,but I have hit a fork in the road I am willing to take.The henderson's are unbelieveable kitters and breakers,and the Ruby's have speed, body conformation,and character.Also with the speed,body and character,I should get some deeper stuff,from the Ruby side.Just an example of your options....Aloha,Todd
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Square
596 posts
Nov 22, 2008
10:44 AM
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Hay George ive been really looking at this petshop Idea,,It could work,, also another thing would be for someone responsible to host two kit's from two diffrent breeders. This person would train and fly the two kits under his style and people could see the results at the end...It would take alot of work and trust be the results could be worth it. And the benifit from getting them from two breeders opposed to the pet shop, would hopefully be Health and garentee that they are a roller breed..LOL anyways this is somthing I would be big on in the future.. Anything to fly rollers or watchum fly,, oyea Geroge good cordination on the Show comming up in you kneck of the woods ,,, count me in...
Booker.
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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rtwilliams
258 posts
Nov 22, 2008
4:52 PM
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Aloha Todd
I have some Billings/Campbell (from Brian Middaugh) birds and some birds from Jay Starley. Another local flyier has birds from John Destout, I got a few to complment my Starley stuff, I hope. They are young birds so we will see how they fly.
I have only been into rollers for about 8 months. So right now I am just learning what these birds do and how to manage them. I have 30 young birds that I will hopefully be able to compete with next year. I have a lot of potential in my loft. I just need to see what I can do with it.
I have believe that I have the best birds I could get. The other option I could have taken would have been Jaconette's from Guil Rand. He has top notch birds also. And If I can not get these to work for me in a few years i may switch. Probally not I am pretty hard headed, and currently determined to make the bes tout of what I got.
As far crossing, I think guys can improve there lofts by selectivly making thier own family. I plan to cross my two families. However, I will not do it next year, because I excpect to learn the most about my birds next year. Then I hope that I can breed best to best for my Mangement style.
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RT Williams
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JMUrbon
620 posts
Nov 23, 2008
8:19 PM
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Paul. that was just about the best way that I have heard that question answered to date. the only time I know of a guy being able to buy a championship is the Yankees. You must be able to train the birds and understand them in order to be sucessful with them. Also like Paul stated sometimes the strain/family of birds that are less known are actually better for you due to the knowledge needed to handle some of these tightly bred and sometimes high strung families. All you really need it the time to train and learn in order to be sucessful. JMHO. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
Last Edited by on Nov 23, 2008 8:20 PM
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gotspin7
2046 posts
Nov 24, 2008
5:44 AM
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I agree Joe! Great post!
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Sal Ortiz
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