kopetsa
2314 posts
Nov 24, 2008
3:57 PM
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This bird won for me at this weekends show.. Out of 87 Birminghams, he got 1st, so not too bad.. I'm Happy! :D Enjoy!
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
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classicpony
705 posts
Nov 24, 2008
4:10 PM
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Nice looking birds and great photo!
Jim
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TT
GOLD MEMBER
195 posts
Nov 24, 2008
4:20 PM
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Good Job Kop's
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kopetsa
2315 posts
Nov 24, 2008
4:24 PM
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Thanks! I only won because you didn't enter your birds Tony! :D
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
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TT
GOLD MEMBER
196 posts
Nov 24, 2008
4:26 PM
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Lol No bro, there was a handful of nice birds there,You did real good, Didnt your Yellow hen place second?
Also It was a pleasure meeting.
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2008 4:26 PM
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kopetsa
2316 posts
Nov 24, 2008
4:30 PM
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Yep Good meeting yah! lol I had a cock that maybe 10-15 people asked me for.. He got first place, I turned down $80.00 for that bird and $100.00 for him and a hen I also turned down.. lol
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2008 4:30 PM
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brudahpete
209 posts
Nov 24, 2008
4:46 PM
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It is a nice looking cock. Too bad you're locked down right now. Sure hope you get back into the flying soon.
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jnyce
378 posts
Nov 24, 2008
4:48 PM
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good job my friend very good job and just thing you were ready to give up on the sport ....oh by the way that yellow bird that i posted a few weeks back is moulting into is adult feathers he is looking pretty dam good now
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jerry t
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kopetsa
2317 posts
Nov 24, 2008
5:13 PM
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I never thought of giving up on this sport whatsoever Jerry.. :) NEVER! I just thought about giving up on flying them for a bit.. :)
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2008 5:14 PM
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donnie james
38 posts
Nov 24, 2008
6:02 PM
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hay andrew very nice looking bird and i want to wish you all the best with him..............donny james
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Santandercol
GOLD MEMBER
3453 posts
Nov 24, 2008
8:12 PM
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Nice bird Andrew.
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Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
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kopetsa
2322 posts
Nov 24, 2008
8:22 PM
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Thanks! It was the Calgary Fancy Pigeon Show! :)
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2003 posts
Nov 24, 2008
8:25 PM
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Good Andrew now next year I want to see your name on the top ten in competition flying that is..:)
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Ralph
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wishiwon2
95 posts
Nov 24, 2008
11:05 PM
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Congrats Andrew
Im not trying to be the fly in the ointment, but ...
As I understand judging for shows, the winner is the bird that meets most closely its own breed standard. How is it then that a performing breed, Birmingham roller, can win a show? Or even be judged in a show? It is a breed that has no written standard for show judgment, right?
On the other hand there is a written standard for the breed to be judged upon, commonly called the 1-2-3 scoring or Ive also heard of a 30 point system, there is also a certified spiner program sponsored by the NBRC, again a written standard for judgement.
Im not trying to take anything from your glory Andrew, but exactly how was your Birmingham evaluated to be better than another, by what standard, upon which criterion? It just is counter-intuitive to judge a performing breed in a cage ...
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kopetsa
2324 posts
Nov 24, 2008
11:19 PM
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Wishiwon:
Well first up condition is a huge part up here.. There was absolutely no fault on this bird. Perfect condition and health.. What the judge said of course. At the back of the bird the tail tip should touch each other. The feel of the bird. The size of the bird is taken into account. The stationing of the bird. Color is not taken into account whatsoever. They usually look for pearl eyes in all birds except for white headed baldies and such. Legs not too long, not too short. Just the overall appearance is taken into appearance. Cleanliness of the bird, if there is any lice on the bird, it is disqualified. They look at back skull.. And for the tail, they want it to overlap to look like the thickness of one. When the bird stands, the tail should be on the ground and the bird should be standing up right. :) Just some things they look for, I have asked many questions to learn this.. :)
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
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wishiwon2
97 posts
Nov 24, 2008
11:38 PM
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Andrew,
You named alot of traits and claimed "they looked for" certain stregths etc. Who is "they" and by what standard are they judging? Their own? Is it a personal preference to have a 1 feather tail or shorter legs or full back skull? I have not seen a written standard for conformation for a Birmingham. Being they are a performing breed, same as a racer, any show standard should reflect conformation that adds to or enhances the ability to perform ... There may be faults that reduce that ability that are definable but I am not convinced there is a physical conformation standard written or not that ensures performing ability.
Again congrats on the win. But what exactly did you win? A show where the criteria was that the bird was well conditioned and didnt have any lice? Im just trying to point out that as a performing breed there isnt a show standard and should not be one, until or unless a standard is defined that is measurable and correlates directly to performing ability.
I know you like your birds and you enjoy having them and doing a variety of things with them. I am happy for you for that. I just have a hard time with a performing breed being judged in a cage by an unwritten standard that has no relation to a birds peforming ability.
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jnyce
380 posts
Nov 25, 2008
2:20 PM
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kopet you da man
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jerry t
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Canspinners
262 posts
Nov 25, 2008
7:16 PM
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Hey great job the bird looks like he is in great condition...."Imagine if he was a yellow instead of a red"
What would happen if you put a yellow hen to him ? would you get yellows or reds or 50 50
congrats
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ArlenS
121 posts
Nov 26, 2008
9:29 AM
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Nice bird Andrew. Good job.
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kopetsa
2326 posts
Nov 26, 2008
11:50 AM
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Thanks guys! Yeah can there would be 50/50.. I am guessing because they are both recessive.. I gonna breed this one to my best show hen and show them.. just to have a little fun with a couple pair of show birds.. I will also be breeding 5 pairs for flying next year that is if the BOP aren't bad.
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
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Scott
1282 posts
Nov 26, 2008
9:57 PM
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Well Jon, good job on pissing on the kids parade LOL
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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kopetsa
2338 posts
Nov 27, 2008
2:53 PM
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yeah you pissed on my parade.. lol
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
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kopetsa
2339 posts
Nov 27, 2008
2:55 PM
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I am amazed, this bird just did a perfect spin in my 8x12x8 high flight pen (with peak).. Obviously some show birds can spin. lol
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
Last Edited by on Nov 27, 2008 2:55 PM
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mario
GOLD MEMBER
257 posts
Nov 27, 2008
9:36 PM
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beautiful bird and congradulation Andrew ..........Mario
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winwardrollers
41 posts
Nov 27, 2008
10:28 PM
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Kopetsa
If the birds didn't roll 10 ft min.. in your coop it didn't count...10 ft min. in kit competitions. lol lol
Brad winward
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wishiwon2
98 posts
Nov 28, 2008
7:35 AM
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I suppose its not the first time I've spoiled somebodies celebration, Although that is/wasnt my intention. It seems alot about perspective, "this bird just did a perfect spin in my 8x12x8 high flight pen (with peak).. Obviously some show birds can spin." What seems perfection to one guy is a quirk toanother.
Andrew, to justify your position with this kind of example doesnt give yourself any credit. All of us enjoy beautiful pigeons especially beautiful rollers. Its just that these are a class of bird created to perform, not be evaluated in a cage under a 'non-standard'. The most valuable bird in this parade is the one that can spin fast and deep, fequently with control, outside of the coop, and still looks great on the perch. I suppose it simply depends on which parade you wanna march in ...
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brudahpete
223 posts
Nov 28, 2008
7:59 AM
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Wishiwon2, I guess showing a bird in this type of competition is better than no birds at all. Kop has had to lock down due to BOP in his neck of the woods. I do agree that this is absolutely a performing breed & really can't be judged without a flight. But, as I said the guy is trying. I don't think that all here can really do it all with this breed. Fortunately, I live in a wide open area and can generally spot BOP before releasing a kit. This poor guy got pretty much cleaned out.
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kopetsa
2353 posts
Nov 28, 2008
8:37 AM
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Thanks Brudahpete! Wishiwon yeah I guess "Perfect" doesn't fit in there.. I just wanted to say that he actually did one pretty decent on and I thought it was simply to fat to do any. So I was excited.. just coming from him. "Andrew, to justify your position with this kind of example doesnt give yourself any credit." what the deuce are you talking about??
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
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wishiwon2
99 posts
Nov 28, 2008
5:53 PM
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I dont want this to become a personal thread.
Andrew, you said " Obviously some show birds can spin. lol " and to illustarte this you use as an example "a perfect spin in my 8x12x8 high flight pen". If this is what you consider perfection then as I said before you discredit yourself and your rollers. I have no doubt that some show type rollers can and do roll, yours included Andrew. I also believe that some competent roller guys can pick a good performer from a line-up. Although at last years NBRC convention very few attendees were able to do so. I really am happy for you winning a show and enjoying your birds in different ways.
I do have a problem though with ranking a performing breed one above another based on criteria from a show cage. You said "They go 100% of body type..". Who decided what the correct body type is? and where is it defined? THAT is where my issue is. There is no standard for judging Birmingham rollers on. Not a written standard, not a consentual opinion within the hobby, none ... So to recognize a winner of a performing breed from a cage show is, well, meaningless ...
I didnt want this to go on like it has, I believe I have expressed my opinion on showing a performing class, enough said by me. Congrats and good luck.
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kopetsa
2385 posts
Nov 28, 2008
6:03 PM
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Judges opinion.. I guess... I had two different birds win the last two shows. Each were grand champions, 2 1/2 weeks agou 1st out of 42 and this past weekend out of 87. Completely the judges opinion! :) I have 3 straight BOB though :) They like the feeling of me birds or something.. ;)
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
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spinningdemon
3 posts
Nov 28, 2008
6:50 PM
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Very nice bird. It looks like some of the Hilton stuff I have here. Just out of curiosity what family is he from?
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kopetsa
2391 posts
Nov 28, 2008
6:52 PM
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Spinning.. not too sure years back these guys were imported from California.. I'll find out very soon.. The guy who had these was real hard into flying :) but the town he flys near put a band on flying pigeons so now he can't fly em anymore. This happened 3 years ago. So now he just breeds breeds to show them and for body type.
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
Last Edited by on Nov 28, 2008 6:54 PM
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spinningdemon
4 posts
Nov 29, 2008
4:41 PM
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I moved out to the country because of the bans put on poultry from the city. I live in a very rural area now and can fly all I want. I do have more predetors though like fox, racoons, owls and even a bob cat.
I do like the look of the bird like I said it looks like he could have come out of my coop.
Have a good one,
David Curneal
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kopetsa
2412 posts
Nov 29, 2008
4:53 PM
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Thanks David! Where are you from? How are raccoons, owls, and foxes bother you? lol Just build the coop very strong and you should be fine. Use 1/4 inch heavy duty wire and its great! Post up some pics. of your birds! I'd love to see them! :)
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
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spinningdemon
12 posts
Nov 30, 2008
6:47 AM
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Andrew,
Here is a photo of one of my stock cocks. It is from the Hilton stuff I am working with. I raised six from this bird this year and 3 are going to the stock loft! I am just going to fly them until I have to lock them down and I hope that I do not loose any. They are all less then 10 months old and I have not worked with this family before but they are great birds.
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2008 7:09 AM
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kopetsa
2418 posts
Nov 30, 2008
8:19 PM
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Awesome looking bird! Yeah mine is Pensom Based. He's pure..
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Andrew C.
Home of the Yellows
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winwardrollers
44 posts
Nov 30, 2008
8:54 PM
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Kopetsa ...."Yeah mine is Pensom Based. He's Pure...Your funny...You and David Curneal are like to peas in a pod..You two should get along just fine. lol
Brad winward
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