winwardrollers
37 posts
Nov 25, 2008
6:27 AM
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Most of the time the A-team stay together and a few birds are taken out now and then and replaced with birds that are superior, for one reason or another during the season.
I would think that most kits are derived this way, moving the best birds at the time in to the A-kit.
When Heine Bijker was at my place a few years back he said that he does not place his kit together of the best birds until before the fly. I may have misunderstood him but my proposed question is what are the pro and con of keeping the kit together and and assembling a kit?
Brad winward
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maxspin
318 posts
Nov 25, 2008
6:38 AM
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Keeping the kit together gains kit chemistry. The birds get to know their roll in the kit. Kit leader etc. They will be more inclined to stay together as a kit, and reform faster after breaks.
Assembling a kit at the last minute will add excitement to the kit causing instability (more roll).
If your family is a little on the stiff side, you could end up with more action. If your family is a little on the hot side, you could end up with out birds or roll downs. It is a tool to use.
I just with that the BOP would leave me with enough birds to play that kind of game. By the time the World Cup comes along I will be lucky to field an OLD bird team. They are the A team by default.
Keith Maxwell
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winwardrollers
38 posts
Nov 25, 2008
4:46 PM
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Keith
My A-team was put together by default this year as well.
Some guys like to seperate the cocks and hen then put them together a few weeks before the fly. I can't say that I have great success doing this.
I move birds around into differant kit and they seem to kit. When they are young birds I fly 60 young birds at a time pull out the non kitting birds and fly them together on a differant feed ration, then do away with non kitting birds from this kit.
Brad winward
Last Edited by on Nov 25, 2008 4:58 PM
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JMUrbon
623 posts
Nov 26, 2008
9:13 AM
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Brad just like you stated in your first post. I have always worked my A-team seperately and worked birds in and out as the progress or degress. Chemestry in the kit is very important and not attainable if the birds are not flown together regularly. I have had kits that will come around and pick up the deeper rolling birds instead of continuing in the opposite direction. When you can go into the loft in the middle of the day or nite and each bird is on the same perch day afer day and they arent fighting over them then you know they are a well bonded team. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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winwardrollers
39 posts
Nov 26, 2008
6:38 PM
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Joe
"Three or four years ago"... I had a kit that had the "kit chemistry" your talking about they were easy to fly and predict... what they would do or what to feed next.
I broke the kit up for breeders here and there and have never been able to have another kit like that until this year. I'm breeding the same birds, haven't change families, change breeders mate is about it.
It is interesting that it took a few years to get a kit like this again.
I like to fly big kits with young birds and let them trap into differant boxes. Like right now I fly three kits(usely only two kits) together, around 80 birds in the sky.
In small kits I think the birds quickly establish a leader but with a 50 to 80 bird group it is harder for one or two individual birds to take over the kit. They trap in and then are seperated after eating into three (two) differant boxes maybe with the same birds they were with the day before or not. Differant perch differant birds, this is with only young birds. I am guessing this teaches the bird some skill when they are young to help them be moved around in differant kits easy when older. I fly large Young kits in the first place because I don't have the time to fly then individually and can't stand to watch young birds until the Fall.
Brad winward
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JMUrbon
627 posts
Nov 27, 2008
10:44 AM
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I agree Brad that with time restraints it is very difficult to train more than a couple kits of young birds. At least for the average working guys schedule. I love training young birds but nothing is more enjoyable to me than watching a well trained active disciplined kit of old birds. I have always flown kits seperate for the main reason that I measure feed daily for each kit and I dont allow straglers to eat. They will surely eat the next day if they want to hang out on the roof. I feed after everybody is trapped and count birds and scoops of grain at that time. Sounds time consuming but it is a habbit that I have used and has worked for me so I have stuck with it. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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donnie james
48 posts
Nov 27, 2008
9:27 PM
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hay brad the only way i'll pull a bird from a "a" team is to stock it and and it has to been flying for 18 months and the takes it place has to be flying for year or so and it to be as good as the it replaces .................donny james
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DeepSpinLofts
1083 posts
Nov 28, 2008
7:30 AM
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Thanks for the information.
===> "Keith says assembling a kit at the last minute will add excitement to the kit causing instability (more roll)."
NOTE: Keep in mind that we are talking about the improvement of an A-Team with a group of the very best performers.
Hmm..... quite an interesting take on how Heine Bjeiker goes about his roller business.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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Scott
1289 posts
Nov 28, 2008
9:05 AM
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Brad, I believe his reasoning for that statement was because he lost his entire team, and his team is also his breeders.
Splitling them up just limits the damage from a huge loss such as an over fly.
You know , I may just start doing the same thing, it does make sence.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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viper
42 posts
Nov 28, 2008
9:03 PM
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We talked some about this at the last fly only I was thinking of breaking them up in 10 bird kits then flying together on comp day have to test it for kitting before to make shore they are on the same page as for as kitting goes but I think it might work the same as for stirring them up alittle.Plus I can ajust feed to the ones that need it alittle better.Going to find out don't know if you don't try it.Blake
Last Edited by on Nov 28, 2008 9:04 PM
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fhtfire
1680 posts
Nov 29, 2008
11:10 AM
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I keep my A-team together all the the time....well at least the Base is together all the time....I do remove and replace birds as needed...due to losses....pull for stock or just not making the grade anymore....so birds are moved in and out...but the base of the team is always there....
I believe in chemistry too....But I will always move at least 5 birds out and put a couple good B-team birds....just to shake it up a little bit....I have found that the birds will also get a little stagnant...too...like too used to being together....then after a couple weeks I will put the 5 back in and put the other birds back in the B-team...and they get active again.
One other thing that I like...I get to see the best B teams react to the A-team....it has happened that I had a diamond in the rough numerous times in the B-team....it appeared that the B-team...will sometimes "hold back" good birds....and you put them in the A team and they shift to another gear.
rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by on Nov 29, 2008 11:11 AM
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