smoke747
1408 posts
Nov 26, 2008
12:47 PM
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Instead of trying to prove each other wrong, why can't we find solutions to the arguements/disagreements.We are dividing the hobby once again into two basic groups, kit competition vs individual performance. We all still have Birmingham Rollers. Each think their group is better for the hobby or the further developement of the BR. So lets come up with some solutions.
Any ideas?
smoke747
Keith London
ICRC
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2008 12:52 PM
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Square
610 posts
Nov 26, 2008
12:59 PM
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One solution would be to to ither speak good or keep silent. I really dont have any issues "Anymore" LOL. But when I did I just feed those adverse to me with a longer handled spoon, and do my best to not reflect the same adverse treatment myself. Thats what has worked for me, Oyea and being in the middle of nomans land provides less exposure to the "CornBalls", that woff.
Square.
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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smoke747
1411 posts
Nov 26, 2008
1:01 PM
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Anybody can complain and criticize. LETS FIND A SOLUTION.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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katyroller
330 posts
Nov 26, 2008
1:10 PM
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Keith, I agree with you 100%. One way to ensure we all get along, is to respect the views and ideas of others. I think we all have a common desire to breed birds that perform well and positively promote the hobby. Personal opinions about how to achieve those goals are just that, personal opinions and they should be respected by all. If a question or statement is posted and the urge to reply and possibly offend the poster is too strong, simply walk away from the computer and take a break.
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COYOTE33
149 posts
Nov 26, 2008
1:54 PM
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I agree with you keith, its starting to become very negative around here, we seem to not respect one another and that's the key. whatever type of birds I fly, indiviuals or kit comp it still should be respected. i should be able to say i fly indiviuals birds and others should know what type of birds i have without saying they are trash, and if someone likes kit comp i should say that's the style of bird he likes and leave it at that.
coyote
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Ballrollers
1598 posts
Nov 26, 2008
2:04 PM
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Solutions to what, Keith? Our hobby is composed of two types of roller flyers, and I suspect that it will always be that way....backyard men and competition men.....and then there are some who are combinations of the two. Nearly all roller flyers were, at some point in their lives, backyard flyers to begin with. (I remember those days with fond recollections.) However, neither is any better man than the other. Each type of flying has it's pluses and minuses and it is up to each individual to seek out what suits him best. Each camp has its valid reasons for believing in what they do. But, I don't see that as a problem that needs any solutions. It's just what is so...
Cliff
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2008 2:06 PM
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3757
1031 posts
Nov 26, 2008
2:10 PM
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Keith - Maybe you have specifics about a certain individual but I would not say that each group is trying to prove each other wrong. I feel that each group has a different direction and that is ok. I also feel that it is good for the hobby to have different views as it is impossible for everyone to like the same thing.
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2008 2:14 PM
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redchecker16
197 posts
Nov 26, 2008
2:19 PM
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Everyones been a backyard flyer unless they flew there pigeons in the front yard.. LOL!! Fly on an stay HUMBLE** Redchecker16 still in the backyard but moving forward slowly, Redchecker16 aka Lamont
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black_hawk_down
171 posts
Nov 26, 2008
2:38 PM
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kopesta flies his birds in his front yard lol!
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fhtfire
1675 posts
Nov 26, 2008
2:42 PM
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List,
The fact of the matter is.....we are all backyard fliers and some choose to compete. Just because you compete does not make you a better flier or manager.......Competition is just fun that is it nothing more and nothing less.
We had this same conversation years back on this list....and the only thing competition does is make you strive for excellence.....period.......Competition makes you bring it up to the next level...the reason being...competitions are out in the open for all to see....and with competition you have to give it all you got....or you will get your ass whooped...period.
If you do not compete...you can still have awesome birds.....but you will not look at your birds the same...you will be more leanient....you will not tighten up the rains....that is a fact.
I know in Motocross....when you are on the track by yourself you thing damn I am pretty fast....but when you get into a race...you realize you may have to step it up....and it is a different ball game...you push yourself harder....not matter what it is.....it is human nature...from poker....to football....to speech contests.....to painting.....and the list goes on...you try harder because you want to win...
When your goal is not to win....you will not try as hard...it is fact.....
Take a Scott Campbell or a Keith London....anybody.....they compete....but if they decided to quit comps....would there birds all of a sudden become inferior....NOPE...but I bet in time they would not be at the high level that they are now....why...they are not begin pushed.
Competition opens your eyes up too...a whole new light....I used to not compete...and I thought I had pretty good birds....but when I got out in the comp...I found that I have to step it up...and my birds got better...why...because in competition you have to...or you will lose....plain and simple..
When you are not into comp you dont look at the same things....when it comes to the birds...and that is so fine...there is not a problem with that.....you can still have good birds...but you may think things like...oh the bird rolls like crazy but will not kit at all....comp or no comp that is a cull
I have heard...the comp rules are not the ideal for the Birm roller....and Comp guys fly shallow birds etc....That is so untrue.....The NBRC is a governing body for the Birmingham roller.....the fly comp rules are how these birds should fly.....Kit tight...roll together...with speed depth and quality.....Backyard flier or not....this is how the birds should be.....this is what I was trying to do before i entered into a comp......Two time a year I am a comp guy......363 days a year I am a backyard flier that strives for excellence and the ideal of a birmingham roller.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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RXR Loft
340 posts
Nov 26, 2008
2:50 PM
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well said Paul.
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RxR Loft
Roll'em if you got'em... cuz commies don't roll
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fhtfire
1676 posts
Nov 26, 2008
2:55 PM
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Keith,
It seems to me..that the people who do not compete...talk the most smack about the comp guys..I have NEVER heard a comp guy say oh backyard fliers birds suck...or anything...but I have heard from not comp guys..say
Comp kits are shallow and over active....They dont care about the individual roller blah blah blah...
The fact of the matter is they are all myths or wives tales.....I breed my birds to be deep fast and tight and to kit like glue.....Do I have a 100' roller yes I do and I have had many...but the quality falls apart after that deep of a roll......but would I put a 100' bird in the kit that could hold it together...YES I WOULD....
I have had non comp guys tell me they would compete if the kitting rule was excluded...I almost fell out of my chair....I actually was arguing with the guy...and this is not the first time I have heard this...I was like...why would you not want the birds to kit....it is EASY to find a no kitter..that rolls hard.....but they guy was dead serious....He said that the INDIVIDUAL roller is what it was all about....I said each bird is an individual within a team....and I said...fine take your not kitting roller....and then I will pick one of my best birds in my team....mark it...have someone come over and judge which bird is better.....They may be about the same......in the air...but the bird that does it in the group is a true stud...because it has heart..the kit excites the birds......you put that individual in a team and it will freak out...
I dont know KEith.....I am one of the most kick back look at every angle guy in the world and I think the only problem is that the ones that do not compete...talk it up...and then when they get called out they get pissed and say we are mean or breed for shallow popcorn kits etc.....15' birds are a dime a dozen.....nothing special in MY eyes....I strive for the birds that are 20'40' and look the same at 20 min as they did at 5 as far as quality goes...
To me there is no argument...all competing is ...is paying a fee and then you are a comp guy.......being a comp guy does not make you better.....but it does make you look a little harder at being better....
rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2008 3:10 PM
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smoke747
1412 posts
Nov 26, 2008
3:02 PM
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I'm not trying to say we are at each others throats I,m saying show the other camp your views in the physical and not with words and let the newbies see the different point of views with facts (physical) and not just words or quote from a fancier who's been gone for 40 years. We breed birds now and we should be able to show examples of the ideal not just talk about them.
3757, when you are teaching and a student does not get what you are teaching, do you break it down and show them along with an explanation? We have to enlighten each other on our views and the respect we want will be gained by most but not all. I know we will always have different sides, views, camps or what ever you want to call it. But just because it has been that way don't mean it has to stay that way. If both sides truly understood what the other was trying to get across, it would be a win win situation that would create an understanding of all aspects of the BR. That alone will help in producing a higher % of quality BR by those who truly want to breed the best BR possible.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2008 3:11 PM
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jnyce
387 posts
Nov 26, 2008
3:07 PM
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well said smoke when i first got on this forum it was and abundance of knowledge being given to the newbies and the "old timers" but now its alot of arguing back and forth and nothing being accomplished lets use this forum for what it was created for teaching learning and enjoying this wonderful creatures
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jerry t
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2008 3:14 PM
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nicksiders
3181 posts
Nov 26, 2008
3:08 PM
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There is no room for anyone with an opinion to vocalize that opinion. Why have an opinion without challenges? You challenge others with your opinion and they challenge you with thiers. How important and how valuable are your opinions if you cannot argue for them? There is no room for the so called purist, either. If you have chosen to be a breed purest, like politics, it may be best not to confirm a strong desire to keep a breed pure.
If it is your desire not to anger anyone, then don't talk of your opinions. Just continue to use this forum as a social gathering of your friends and nobody learns anything because nobody teaches anything. When I argue with someone, it does not lower my opinion or expectation of them unless they name call me or demean me. I have had neither happen to me in here.
This forum is not what it once was; it has changed. I am not sure if the change is for the better or not. It is up to the owner to decide. It is his forum and his decission to make. This forum once had some hard core teachings going on and many things were learned even by veterens of the hobby. That is because many where hard set in thier opinions; the way an opinion should be. Things were said that rippled plum through the roller world in this forum.
Are we still rippling the waters here, anymore?
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2008 6:04 PM
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SiDLoVE
329 posts
Nov 26, 2008
4:00 PM
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Smoke you are correct, teaching them in there backyard as you mentioned on wing position post,weather its pictures,videos or a mini seminar on certain subjects.
Paul well said..if ur the only one in the race track you look the fastest...lmao... When its showtime and put other riders who compete ur the guy with the slow start.HAHA.
Competetion keeps me motivated to push to improve and go to higher levels for myself to enjoy my backyard.
The whole POINT as Paul mentioned 2 times a year comp guy and 394 days backyard.Good Luck
DjSid
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Snake Doctor
332 posts
Nov 26, 2008
4:04 PM
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I'm with Nick! Challenge me! help me grow in this sport. Do we have convictions based on truth or just unbending opinions with out substantiation?
Learn from someone who knows more and in turn pass it along to someone who is following!
I want to leave evidence that I have passed this way, to do so I must follow the tracks someone else left and leave a blaze for those following later.
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"Semper Fi"
SD
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2936 posts
Nov 26, 2008
4:25 PM
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Hey Nick, nice to hear from you. I tend to agree with you to an extent. I think there are many good threads and posts all the time.
However, I do see some threads get started that just are not worth reading or commenting on. Especially the social chats that would be better if delivered by email or telephone. When this gets excessive, its harder to spot the threads that have real substance.
It is my plan to begin culling threads that don't really justify taking up space on a page. Of course, I sure catch allot of grief when I do though.
I think another problem is the amount of rudeness and lack of manners some express. This can be a turn-off and spoil what is a good thread topic.
I think the rudest behavior is for someone to challenge the host in public for exercising the right to edit and modify posts. Nothing shows more lack of respect for the objectives of the website than that.
Another thought that comes to mind is that some people do not understand debating. When the posts go back and forth, some see it as an argument and are turned off by it.
I am reading all these posts here with interest and will consider all that I read.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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silver tail
620 posts
Nov 26, 2008
4:31 PM
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Smoke I don't have an awnser for this subject but if one can respect the fact that every one is an individual an each has there own direction in which they want to go. I also think that if the ind fliers would open there flies up an show some of us comp guys what there talking about they do come to all the shows but dont have open events for comp guys to show there birds.
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jnyce
388 posts
Nov 26, 2008
4:57 PM
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i cant speak for others but i personally dont mind when knowledgable people have a debate it is very helpful to people that dont have a good understanding of what ever a sitution or topic maybe its just that at times some of the dicussions can get personal and then the bickering make what use to be a good post lose its subtance due to people not being open minded enough to accept that folks will have opinions that differ from there own.
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jerry t
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3757
1032 posts
Nov 26, 2008
5:51 PM
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Keith - That is exactly why I entered birds in your contest right away for people to see and why I am helping great individuals like Joe Hanson who is at the top in Washington (Who his first year scored highly in the 11 bird fly), Pat Topper, Ying, and many others. It gives great pleasure to help individuals when I can.
Paul - Any body that you label as an individual flier that tells you he does not care if his birds kit is like a guy who fly's in the world cup that says he wants his birds not to kit. Any bird that does not kit after being trained is a cull!
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2008 6:09 PM
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Spin City USA
118 posts
Nov 26, 2008
6:36 PM
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Kieth, props to you bro for sticking you neck out. I like your idea of having an exibition fly put on by both sides for educational purposes. Every body should learn something.
Paul I aggree with you, I had not flown comp in a long time.
I flew in the FF's this year. I was not being pushed and there was no urgency to really train my birds properly. I am very fortunate to have friends who have good birds who set me up right when I wanted to fly the birds again. I am one of those who needs a push, the comps and the new friends I have made in the Thunderbird Roller Club and on this site and others has been a positive influence on my program. Thanks to all.
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They gotta Spin to win.....Jay
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brudahpete
218 posts
Nov 26, 2008
6:37 PM
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Differing opinions are great as each has merit due to the experience of the writer. I find that this hobby has a huge deversity among fanciers. All are from extremely different backgrounds, careers, locations & upbringings. We all have things in common yet big differences, I'm learning from each. In the end I hope that we continue to propogate this species of bird and improve it as a whole by learning from each other. But, what do I know? I'm just a simpleton wanting to learn.
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spanky
669 posts
Nov 26, 2008
6:39 PM
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3757 COMO AS ESTADO CARNAL. ESPERO QUE TODO ESTE BIEN.
SPANKY
SGVS
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smoke747
1414 posts
Nov 26, 2008
6:52 PM
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My point exactly. If a new fancier got on the forum while a back and forth "debate" was going on, how would he decide which way to go with his program. Why not express your views in the physical realm instead of verbally. I am not trying to take away opinions or nothing but we have get our own respect and dues from what we do today. I don't knock no one for their program, infact I can see some of their views as being helpful in my program.
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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Spin City USA
119 posts
Nov 26, 2008
6:52 PM
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Every thing that we feel passoniate about and what we know comes from our experience's. It is fact and truth to us and we learn from our mistakes. So if some body states something on a post and I think it has merit I can try it or not, I can say, wow that works or been there done that, it dont work in my birds. To a degree we are all experimenting all the time, unless you have a click pair that is throwing you a high % all the time you really dont know how good that mating was untill you fly the grandbabies to see if it breeds true. I like to read what everybody has to say on these different subjects, there is a wealth of information in these threads.
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They gotta Spin to win.....Jay
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brudahpete
220 posts
Nov 26, 2008
6:58 PM
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Jay, you're absolutely right. Everyone here is on a mission to produce what appeals to him or her. We all experiment & we all have successes & setbacks. I just hope that we forget about the petty stuff & work together on improving the breed. I've gotta say, the info in this site is extremely valuable!
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3757
1033 posts
Nov 26, 2008
7:01 PM
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Spanky - Todo va bien y tienen una gran vacaciones.
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George R.
1182 posts
Nov 26, 2008
7:31 PM
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I probably have thrown some gas on this fire at one time or another, but I would have never expressed the way I felt about this subject until I read people making up shit like Comp guys breed for 10 foot birds that break a lot or "I breed for the true spinner thats why I dont compete".
Any one that believes that crap is living in a pipe dream.
I have spoken to several guys that fly comp and they all told me they breed for 30 ft plus and fast with style pigeons.
I have never said that individual Comp guys have junk I just stated to hold the fly and I will enter .
any way I have to agree with paul on this one , but I understand where Kieth is comming from.
if I have offended any individual breeder or flyer i want to apologize , I am willing to bury the hatchett on this subject , but if someone repeats that comp guys breed for short and shallow pigeons I will have to set them strait.
The novice
George
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2008 7:34 PM
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Ballrollers
1599 posts
Nov 26, 2008
7:43 PM
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Good points shared by all.........where else in this hobby can any of us go to observe or to participate in such excellent debates about this hobby.....all aspects of this hobby, as we have over the past few years? It is so easy for discussions about opposing positions to get outta hand and to be directed or taken personally to the point that all sense of value is destroyed in the emotion of the debate. We walk a fine line at times, myself included. Tony and the moderators have done an outstanding job, in my opinion, of refereeing the discussions and censoring when need be. Yes, I said censoring. There are some among us who need censoring from time to time. That's not necessarily a bad thing. There are some things that just cannnot and should not be shared on a public forum. Monitoring and/or participating in these discussions has helped us each grow a little in the sport, and hopefully even as human beings.
JMHO,
Cliff
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Spin City USA
120 posts
Nov 26, 2008
7:43 PM
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If you went to somebodys yard and saw the real deal in the air, I dont care what side of the fence your on, if those birds had something that you could use in your program I dont think you would not be a true rollerman if you did not try to swing a deal for some of them. Even to experiment with, get a pair or something.
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They gotta Spin to win.....Jay
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katyroller
333 posts
Nov 26, 2008
8:42 PM
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I'm not sure where the whole "comp fliers breed for shallower more frequent birds" statement came from but I can see where some may have incorrectly gotten that impression. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION SO TAKE IT FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH. I personally like the deep birds(60'+), where am I most likely to see them, at a backyarders or a comp fliers? My experience has been that a backyarder is more likely to breed for them. My experience has been that these deep birds tend to be individuals and they do not do well in comps which are team events. Also a backyarder is not going to be penalized like a comp flier if a bird or two bounces during a fly. If a newbie who likes deep birds goes to a comp expecting to see 60'+ birds, he is probably going to be disappointed. Now if he comes to my backyard and sees some of my Whitts throwing 60'+ he might mistakenly assume I have the better birds. Likewise, if he is looking for a chance to see a full turn, he is better off going to a comp flier because he isn't going to see it at my house!
I have been to club flys where the judges made it real obvious that all they were looking for was frequent rolling and high numbers of birds performing together. There was little to no consideration given to quality or depth. A few poor judges can ruin it for everyone. Fortunately, these were small club flys years ago and I have not seen this at the larger NBRC sanctioned or national flys.
I just feel that it boils down to different groups breeding for different goals that need to respect each others goals and accomplishments.
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cv rollers
148 posts
Nov 26, 2008
9:13 PM
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katy,well put as a newbe (1-year)i have to agree with u, all i ever saw was deep rollers at my friends house till i went to some flys .then i found out what the comp.flying was about (not the same)now i see the difference ...i started the most resent thread about % of back yard flyers/comp.flyers with the comments made on this site seamed as if u were not a comp.flyer u did not no anything JMO
i did find out i seams that there is more back yard flyers than comp.flyers .alot do want to compete they just are not ready,some dont care to compete and are just as happy!!!!!
"different strokes 4 different folks" we should all respect everyones opinion! not every body wants to be in the spot light
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RodSD
67 posts
Nov 26, 2008
9:24 PM
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Opinion is fine with me. Arguments are find with me. Personal attacks are not fine with me because it doesn't add anything to the argument.
Speaking of Tony's posts, does he mean/imply that we can't have opinions anymore? And no more socialization aspect?
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Norm_Knox
233 posts
Nov 26, 2008
9:29 PM
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I think we all (serious BR breeders) strive for the same goal weather we fly comp. or we'r back yard fliers. We all try to achive the same goal which is to have some "Ideal" BR... good post Keith ...JMO
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N/A Loft
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Scott
1280 posts
Nov 26, 2008
9:45 PM
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If we cant shoot em can't we at least shave thier heads and send them to Tijuana?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2008 9:46 PM
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katyroller
335 posts
Nov 26, 2008
9:47 PM
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RodSD, I won't try to speak for Tony but I'll give you MY interpretation of what he is saying. I think he is trying to tell us to respect each others opinions and refrain from the bickering that results from posts that are purely intended to offend. As far as the socialization, let me give you an example. A post starts out asking a question about birds and gets say 10 replies. Out of the 10 replies, only 3 or 4 truly address the question and the rest go something like this, "Hey bro, what's up? Give me a call." "Yeah, my birds are okay. Did you talk to so and so?" You get the idea. These kind of replies are personal and have nothing to do with the original post.
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cv rollers
149 posts
Nov 26, 2008
9:53 PM
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scott ;shoot who?,shave who?what r u talkin about????
isnt this what tony is talken about???
Last Edited by on Nov 26, 2008 9:56 PM
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Scott
1283 posts
Nov 26, 2008
10:00 PM
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Oh lighten up cv , if it makes you happy we will all hold hands in the buff and sing along with the Village People
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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cv rollers
150 posts
Nov 26, 2008
10:17 PM
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what i meant was were is the respect ,u DONT NO ME ,i dont swing that way buddy sorry !!!!!
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nicksiders
3183 posts
Nov 26, 2008
11:18 PM
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How many 60 footers are you breeding? Are you saying this is why you don't compete? If you have 10 or 20 birds doing sixty feet you need to be competing if you like winning..
If you say you are not competing because of your preference for 60 footers than your augument does not fly.(No pun intended)
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Nov 27, 2008 3:09 AM
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COYOTE33
150 posts
Nov 26, 2008
11:34 PM
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Hey! cv, dont get caught up with scott, that's just him,once you have been on this sight for a while you began to understand personalities. but you and katyroller have good post, it just really depends on what a person likes, comp or individual.personally i like the individual but my goal is to get a kit of these birds rollin 30+ and roll with those comp guys. we just need to respect one another on what we are all trying to do. the bottom line is old school is individual, new school is comp, i like old school!
coyote!
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Windjammer Loft
551 posts
Nov 27, 2008
5:57 AM
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I am on the same thought pattern as katyroller with her explanation to RodSD. Way to much on the SOCIAL aspect. Instead of keeping with the thread content. Learn posting etiquett....
This is where I think I might step on some toes with my next comments.....I think Tony should consider to tighten up the rains so to speak.. He tries to please everyone but, in REAL life that can't be done. This is his ship. Maybe, Tony needs to ENFORCE the policies more. Institute afew more and hold to them. Remember this is his livelyhood. Also if their is a thread up and you DON'T have anything positive to add to it, then just pass it by.
And my last comment, we are all American, speak ENGLISH!!!!
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Nov 27, 2008 6:24 AM
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3757
1034 posts
Nov 27, 2008
6:48 AM
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Paul - America was founded by three European countries during the European conquest of the Native American and that was France, England and Spain . In those now American territorities you have people who still speak those three Languages as well as the Native languages and they are American. It would be a problem if I posted in French or Spanish every post but I said hello to a man who I care for as a brother. Have a wonderful holiday my friend.
Last Edited by on Nov 27, 2008 7:02 AM
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Velo99
1932 posts
Nov 27, 2008
6:51 AM
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Hi Nick
Good to see you buddy. I could add a lot of aready has been said but til the freshman call we have here gets ready to learn a few things,its just a lesson in futility.
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V99
Straight up,no chaser.
___ ~_____
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__66___()_)\__\
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katyroller
336 posts
Nov 27, 2008
9:19 AM
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Nick, I don't breed many 60'+ birds that are of the quality that I can compete successfully. You know as well as I do that birds that are that deep are usually lacking in other areas such as kitting and stability. A bird that is consistently ripping those kind of depths is only going to race back to the kit so many times before they are either physically or mentally unable to. To get a 11 bird or 20 bird kit that is ripping 40-60'+ with any kind of frequency in a 20 minute fly, is a major feat. Now give me a 1 hr. fly and I MIGHT be able to compete with the shorter rolling birds. Ever try standing in the yard and watching a kit intently for 1hr? Better make sure you have good med. insurance or a neck brace! Having said all that, am I trying to produce that kit of deep birds that could successfully compete? You bet! Do I still attend the club flys and support the guys flying the short rolling birds? You bet! Do I stand there and bitch about their birds because I feel that they are too short? Nope!
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Scott
1285 posts
Nov 27, 2008
9:31 AM
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(Nick, I don't breed many 60'+ birds that are of the quality)
Bingo ! and there is the difference, one mans deep bird is another mans cull if the quality isn't there.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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katyroller
337 posts
Nov 27, 2008
9:53 AM
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Scott, "one mans deep bird is another mans cull if the quality isn't there." I agree completely but remember,
"one mans 10' "a" style blur is another mans cull if the depth isn't there." :)
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nicksiders
3185 posts
Nov 27, 2008
10:46 AM
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Katyroller,
It is obvious you are a good roller man. Most would have said that thier 60 footers can hold it together in quality form like any 30 footer.
I am thinking you are from Katy, TX
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Scott
1286 posts
Nov 27, 2008
11:09 AM
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("one mans 10' "a" style blur is another mans cull if the depth isn't there." )
Actualy there is no comparison, one is doing it correctly while the other is flawed, but also 10' doesn't represent the breed well and I won't use them in my team unless I am really scraping the bottom of the barrel.
But one that I refuse to use is a bird that doesn't have the capability to do it correctly.
In all honesty I can't even stand watching a bird not doing it correctly, it is like someone pulling thier fingernails accross a chaulk board, notice in where I said "capability" in this post, even the best call roll like a cull at times depending on conditions and condition.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Nov 27, 2008 12:28 PM
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