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pure pensoms??


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THISROLL
162 posts
Nov 29, 2008
8:04 PM
i was wondering are there still any pure pensoms that hasn't been crossed with anything.. thanks alot..
brudahpete
244 posts
Nov 29, 2008
8:12 PM
Considering that his birds are all over this continent, I wouldn't have any idea if someone has kept a pure line. There may very well be but realistically, I doubt you'd be able to claim "certified pure" just with the fact of so many birds spread throughout this country. I don't think you could prove it if you had some. That's not saying that it couldn't happen. It would be very hard to prove.
Ballrollers
1602 posts
Nov 29, 2008
8:12 PM
Father forgive him.....for he knows not what he is asking! LOL!
Cliff
THISROLL
164 posts
Nov 29, 2008
8:16 PM
OH THANKS.. i was wondering becas can a strain lose it ability to roll (become weak at rolling) if they are mixed with anything else..
brudahpete
245 posts
Nov 29, 2008
8:18 PM
The real big question would be how could you tell in the first place? The Birmingham Roller is the root bird here not "Pensom". Pensom was a great fancier, no, probably the greatest fancier of the Birmingham breed. I wonder who got him started and produced the breed itself.

Do yourself and everybody else a favor, breed only rollers to rollers! The Birmingham Roller isn't the only roller breed in the world but it's the predominant breed here in the States. A lot of these guys have Oriental Rollers and assorted breeds from Eastern Europe. You will probably experiment with one or the other but the great thing is, you can learn so much here about the do's & dont's.

Last Edited by on Nov 29, 2008 8:23 PM
spinningdemon
16 posts
Nov 30, 2008
9:19 AM
There are many that claim to have birds back to the imports, many in fact. Many breeders with peds back to then. I have a family of birds with WHP,Hilton, J L Smith etc in their back grounds and on thier peds.

The important thing here is not if the birds were kept pure for so long but what have the birds been breed for since?

There are very many breeders with the "Pure" stuff but make sure if you are going to buy some that you see them in the air and do not buy just off of pedigree.

This is my advice from my experience. Buy them after you have seen them fly!

David Curneal
PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2009 posts
Nov 30, 2008
9:29 AM
Good post David.
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Ralph
3757
1040 posts
Nov 30, 2008
9:45 AM
Let me give you some history. First, Bill Pensom's family was not spread all over as was stated above. That is incorrect historically and thanks to Howard McCully this did not happen. Howard made sure that the majority of the main breeders stayed intact and he kept many, the remaining went to a few people namely Ivan Brower whose birds when he died in 1969 went to Bruce Cooper, and Eldon McDowell had quite a few, Hugo ended up with a few main breeders and Gary Severe bought the young kit. Now, there were a lot of singles and some pairs went here (Hampson etc) and there but the bulk of the line remained with a few guys (I am speaking of the main breeders not just birds Bill bred.) The birds that Howard had are still intack today and have never been crossed with anything maintained by Herb Sparkes.
The rest of the story is in my book regarding the Pensom birds. So, do not let people tell you they were dissimanated into every Tom, Dick and Harry's line because that is not true. You must also remember I am just speaking of the birds Pensom had as his family was well established and in the hands of many others as Smith, Plona etc and those lines are intact also.

Now, there are guys that have pure Pensom rollers on paper and you might as well use the paper in the toilet to wipe because that is all it is worth.
Then there were guys who wanted the genetic propensity for spin and flew the birds and have them intact today as a flying breed.

Then of course some of them wanted and did take the Pensom line and cross them to all sorts of birds and that is why you see white bars, adulusions and purple people eaters and they say they are Pensom line (The birds may perform well and I am not doubting that). So, there is the answer to your question just stay away from the ones that you should use the paper in the toilet area unless of course you just want something to read!

Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2008 8:38 AM
rottweiler
35 posts
Nov 30, 2008
10:48 AM
surly after so many years the pensom rollers are gone
just because some one kept them .they would not of breed the same way as pensom would have done.
so surely they can not keep calling them pensoms .
i just got 3 pairs to start back up with from a freind .i would not call them after him i am pairing them and training them so now they are now my breed
too many peaple cashing in on others names

in the racing world when the jansen brothers got a new bird in it became a jansen no matter were it came from
3757
1041 posts
Nov 30, 2008
10:57 AM
I race also and this is not the racing world but since you brought it up there are scorns of Top racer men who still call thier birds Janssens. Secondly, the term Pensom rollers did not mean that they came from Bill Pensom directly but were called Pensom rollers when the PRC was created in the 40's. These were the birds that traced back to the imports only so this is totally different from your analysis. It has nothing to do with the way Pensom bred them at all. It is funny that for almost 40 years they were called Pensom rollers now every one and thier mom states they are not Pensoms now. So, what are Fireballs, Caspersons etc do we change the name as Graham did not breed them? Since this is the logic why not? Do you see the logic. All the adds of pure Reed and Higgins what does that mean?

Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2008 11:05 AM
brudahpete
250 posts
Nov 30, 2008
11:15 AM
I think that genetics are a tricky thing. Unless you go through DNA & the whole nine yards you would have a very difficult time proving anything. 3757, I admire & respect your knowledge, I love history as well.

My personal opinion is that the birds will become what each individual breeder puts into them. A life long fancier thus creates his or her own family unique from all others.
Scott
1293 posts
Nov 30, 2008
11:16 AM
LaRon,that first post was a good read , I have writings here from McCully that are really good and honestly are some of the best that I have read,much of it is the same as pensoms only he was able to pen the context much better.
Scott
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Just my Opinion
Scott
3757
1042 posts
Nov 30, 2008
11:19 AM
Brudapete - Thanks. I agree with you 100 percent!

Scott - Thanks also! I hope all is well.

Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2008 11:20 AM
Alohazona
496 posts
Nov 30, 2008
11:53 AM
I believe Don Norwood has a line of pure pensom rollers and maintains a closed loft policy...Aloha,Todd
birdman
668 posts
Nov 30, 2008
2:15 PM
At what point did Pensom's collection of birds become his 'pure' strain?

Russ
brudahpete
251 posts
Nov 30, 2008
3:48 PM
I think that point is every roller man's goal. To have a loft full of birds inseparably tied to his name. If we all take the best of what we have & make them ours, we will have made our mark on the species. I want a pure strain of Petersons in my loft!


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