fontanabound
1 post
Dec 04, 2008
6:24 PM
|
just got back into the birds after not having them for years. i bought 26 birds from a breeder, i plucked 12 to 16 feathers from one wing. as it takes about 3 weeks to a month for them to fly again. minewhile i home them buy letting them walk the yard when i get home from work, for a couple of hours. anyway i did that for a month the birds are homed. now all birds have full wings and are flying. but the basters wont take to the skys. soon as i open the door they fly straight to the ground looken for seeds as they would when they couldnt fly. all day im chasing birds off the ground to the roof. and as soon as i turn my back they fly back to the ground. some time i put like 15 birds in a small cage and release them in the front yrd instead of the back. and its just a mess some birds fly left some fly right. some cant even make it over the chain link fence and crash. no one kits everyone everything is wild. i got birds everwhere and this is not how is should be.
|
fresnobirdman
258 posts
Dec 04, 2008
6:43 PM
|
your bird knows where the food is, the food is on the ground, they know that.
you have to chase them every time they land
or you may be feeding them too much.
the ones that cant make it over the fence arent fit, or their wings arent too strong.
hold them on the legs and make them flap.
~~Fresnobirdman~~
|
roller alley
31 posts
Dec 04, 2008
6:43 PM
|
ther were a couple of problems that should have been avoided.
1.plucking feathers is old school,what i do is get a cage and leave it on the roof of my loft,there is an open hole on the loft and they home themselves while i am at work since i get off late and cant home anything 2 days a week
2.what i also do is i tape the birds when i could let them out in the yard,and take the tape off in the eavening when they are back in the loft and they dont get lazy on me,they fly in the loft all day
3.now that your birds might be ruined they might not be able to be fixed unles you get more birds that you train correctly,then introduce these broken birds slowly to get them acustomed to fly,kit,then spin
good luck its a long road ahead
L.J
|
TT
GOLD MEMBER
225 posts
Dec 04, 2008
6:43 PM
|
Im wondering if plucking the feathers is really a good thing, If i had mine plucked and wasnt able to fly fpr 3 weeks i would probably forget what i had wings for, lol
Anyways welcome to a site full of answers better then mine.
Just curios why you dnt place them in a cage to get homed?
Last Edited by on Dec 04, 2008 6:45 PM
|
WaTtS UpP
1214 posts
Dec 04, 2008
6:46 PM
|
first you plucked way to much of the wings
second its not good to feed on the floor there going to catch something from eating there
third your feeding to much
forth starv there ass...
----------
Watts uppp homeboy
|
THISROLL
181 posts
Dec 04, 2008
6:48 PM
|
Plucking the birds..well i think that is the one of the accurate ways to get rollers to home your your place.. i done it many times and hadn't lost a bird yet.when you pluck them they will become use to your other birds..they have the chemistry towards the others (like a true kit does)...i think that taping the birds wings damages them..i learned that in animal science class..
Last Edited by on Dec 04, 2008 6:53 PM
|
donnie james
65 posts
Dec 04, 2008
6:50 PM
|
i have to agree all 3 guys on this on this donny james
|
ROLLERMAN
229 posts
Dec 04, 2008
6:55 PM
|
The 1st thing i learned about pigeons they are a creature of habit. Looks like you got them in a bad habit. try taken them down the st a short distance and let them go. When i start birds they are not allowed on the ground. too me thats a big no no
al
|
fontanabound
4 posts
Dec 04, 2008
7:01 PM
|
thanks for the advice guys. i really hope that i didnt ruin these 26 birds, i used my best jugdement in picking them. and i cant even enjoy them in the air cause there all over the ground and im chasing and flagging the hell out of them and they wont take too the sky.
|
fresnobirdman
262 posts
Dec 04, 2008
7:09 PM
|
hold them by their legs and make them flap till their very tired, that works for me wen my birds are lazy.
~~Fresnobirdman~~
|
brudahpete
275 posts
Dec 04, 2008
7:52 PM
|
Wow! Talk about creating a problem! Rule #1:Birds fly from the loft or kitbox & return to the loft or kitbox, PERIOD! If you want the birds to rule you, you just did it in a big way! Settling birds should never involve the yard around the loft or the house. The birds can be settled/homed by placing them in cages on the loft or kitbox. They should be shown only places you desire them to be. If you want yard birds, you got 'em! If you want performers, start over. To fix these birds, I would build a dark kitbox & keep them in the box and when you take them out, put them in a cage attached to your trap. When they start trapping from the cage a few days, then start flying them. Good luck!
Last Edited by on Dec 04, 2008 7:53 PM
|
PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2050 posts
Dec 04, 2008
7:55 PM
|
Birds were train the wrong way they learn what you teach them .you let them eat on the ground and hang out there that's what they learn they acquire bad habits but you can retrain them how old are they?.. anyway put them back in a cage on the loft for a week make sure they have all of their wings primary ..secondary's fully grown..don't feed them let them eat at the time you want them to eat lets say 5 or 3pm what ever is best for you call them in when they eating whistle so they get train that when you whistle is feeding time.. feed in kit box no where else at end of week cut down on feed and the day you let them out don't feed the day before ..let them out early but take top cage out and just sit there and let them be curious don't bother them just get ready every time they fly to ground throw a ball at them or towel .when they go back to top leave them alone they will soon learn they don't get bother at top of loft but when they fly to the ground they do.repetition is the key.. now after a while call them in and whistle, rattle the feed can what ever is your choice.. the next day let them out again but this time only ten or 16 when they are all on top together hid behind coop and quickly flag them up and don't let them know its you do it fast so they get scare of flag not you and run to your sitting area without flag and watch who goes up who banks ect..do this a couple of days until they all flying as a kit even if you have to box them up maybe ten of them and take them two block down .fly them in small groups so you know who is giving you problems they must learn that you are the kitmaster now..but you must also learn from them watch them closely they will teach you..good luck ..and by the way Welcome to Tony site..
----------
Ralph
|
brudahpete
276 posts
Dec 04, 2008
7:57 PM
|
THISROLL, as for plucking, I try to stay away from the practice unless the feathers are seriously damaged. As for tape, try blue painter's masking tape as it has a very mild adhesive. BTW, the only "yard birds" I own are 2 parlor rollers, they don't fly anyway, they hang out with the chickens!
Fontanabound, I sure hope you can fix the birds, welcome to the site & don't be offended if I sounded to harsh, there was no offense intended. That's the beauty of this site, problems you may have with your birds are sometimes easily remedied by asking questions here.
Last Edited by on Dec 04, 2008 9:28 PM
|
fontanabound
5 posts
Dec 05, 2008
6:11 AM
|
thanks guys.
|
Santandercol
GOLD MEMBER
3476 posts
Dec 05, 2008
6:38 AM
|
fontana,
might be an idea to now put all them birds in the breeder loft and start over.
----------
Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
|
Windjammer Loft
571 posts
Dec 05, 2008
7:17 AM
|
I can't tell you anything that hasn't been said already.....
Next time you might want to try painters tape(the blue stuff) instead of plucking feathers. Just tape the first 3 or 4 wing feathers together..and make sure they stay on the ROOF.......lol. I just re-read the post and saw the painters tape already offered...
Try this too...crate them up and take the birds a few hundred feet away from the loft or further if possible and release them..They have to fly to get back to the loft to eat. Make sure they don't eat the day before you do this...
----------
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2008 7:21 AM
|
Electric-man
2156 posts
Dec 05, 2008
8:03 AM
|
Next time you are gonna home some birds, smear dawn dishwashing soap all over the flights on one side. It will goo them up sp they cant fly. When you think their homed, wash it off with water.
I tried the blue painters tape and it didn't stick very well. The bird was flapping its wings furiously trying to fly and the tape just flew off and so did the bird! Won't do it again myself.
DONT LET THEM ON THE GROUND! I had to get rid of my first birds for this reason. If one bird goes down, the others will follow.
Don't know if you can fix them now! You will need a good dog, noisy flag, and some serious patience!
I say throw them in the breeders loft and fly their young!!! Look for the breeders that are producing good birds and focus on them. Be patient!!!
----------
Val
|
smoke747
1427 posts
Dec 05, 2008
8:10 AM
|
bad habits, bad habits. I would just get rid of them and start over, or pick afew if they are from good stock and breed them and don't make that same mistake.
JMO.
smoke747
----------
Keith London
ICRC
|
pat66
237 posts
Dec 05, 2008
8:20 AM
|
I never allow my birds on the ground! the kit box - the kitbox roof or the air!
----------
Pat
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2008 8:21 AM
|
silent187
229 posts
Dec 05, 2008
12:50 PM
|
MAN IF THEIR HOMED ALREADY JUST GET ONE BY ONE OUT BUT WHEN U LET THEM OUT THROW THEM INTO THE AIR HARD AND THEY SHOULD START FLYING OR SCARE THEM UP TILL THEY STAY UP WITH ANYTHING A LONG STICK A BALL ANYTHING....
|
Velo99
1973 posts
Dec 05, 2008
12:51 PM
|
Cut their feed by half. Next day take em down the block,same thing next day. The next time take em a block further. If that doesnt work after a week,cull em.
You`l know thew feed amount right when they come down to eat quickly but have their wings down. If they all are wings up feed more. If its just the same few all the time they are g2g
----------
V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
___ ~_____
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__48___()_)\__\
|
rockx.559
136 posts
Dec 05, 2008
4:19 PM
|
had this before and most will never get over that feeding on the ground...I think best is to either put them away for a long time and try not to pluck them because if a bird wants to stay it'll stay... doesn't take long for them to home...some still fly away even when they come back so many times...and raise their youngs to fly instead of them...
|
THISROLL
191 posts
Dec 05, 2008
5:30 PM
|
i let my birds eat from the ground when they are outside..it comes naturally to them.. they are getting extra vitamins from teh ground lol..thats what i like to think it as.. haha
|
Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
83 posts
Dec 05, 2008
5:58 PM
|
----------
Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
For what it is worth, just free fly them for a couple weeks. They will start flying together on thier own, let them eat free choice in the loft during this time. Then retrain them like a kit, keep them hungry and feed them after they trap.
|
mario
GOLD MEMBER
265 posts
Dec 05, 2008
6:03 PM
|
I never let my birds go to the ground ...NEVER....
i think they get bad habits from that
Mario
|
PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2076 posts
Dec 05, 2008
6:07 PM
|
Persistence and consistent is the key ..I use to have Canadian high flyers and they were bankers and i made then stop that habit I put ppl on every roof..lol..but it work ..
----------
Ralph
|
mario
GOLD MEMBER
268 posts
Dec 05, 2008
6:11 PM
|
Ralph .......what s a PPL....?
Mario
|
Bill C
135 posts
Dec 05, 2008
6:35 PM
|
I would not have plucked the feathers, this really thows the brids off course and delays training too long. I guess these birds were too old to train as young birds? If you get birds still young but can fly good you can start reducing the feed and then skip two days feed and the last day no water and they will follow you around the yard. Plus using a day cage on top to train them. But you did it a different way. I would suggest take these 26 birds and if they are older then pair them up and you could end up with 10 to 13 pairs. Raise some young birds to fly out and keep good records and you will find your best cock and hen in three years. Plus you can pull out the best two cocks and hens each year and replace the ruined birds eventually. It is a longer road in some cases but as long as you pick your best flyers out of the air you will end up increasing your percentages over time.
Having proven birds flown in the air does not guarantee you anything except your percentage of good rollers will increase and if you pick out the best in the air and breed them together you will be on your way. At least that is what I would do at this point. Some of these birds might kit and work out but the ones giving you problems will cause the others to land early or out birds will pull more birds out and you might waste your time anyway. So Think about breeding them in spring and fly the young at a young age when they are easy trained and never pull the feather out of the young ones to home them in. Go visit some guys who fly birds in the competitions and see how they do it, they will advice you well. BIll C
|
RodSD
92 posts
Dec 05, 2008
6:55 PM
|
It is just me or Fontanabound's birds are too hungry to fly in that they go to the ground looking for food right away when released? I know we have to make birds hungry, but not too hungry, right?
How much are you feeding them?
|
Snake Doctor
339 posts
Dec 05, 2008
7:59 PM
|
I have started using a pigeon wing strap, it is made of velcro, prohibits the bird from flying but allows it to walk around. They are available from any company that handles bird dog hunting supplies, they are about $3.00 but easy to make after you see one.
----------
"Semper Fi"
SD
|
Bill C
137 posts
Dec 05, 2008
8:59 PM
|
RodSD, there is alot goin on with these birds. Letting them forage for food on the ground made some bad habbits but pulling feathers on a bird is like creating a handy cap for them to deal with and then expect them to fly as normal. Young rollers go through a leanring phase, it is important for them to learn to kit and fly early or they may never learn to kit. Some will but you have retarded thier learning experience. That is why I suggested as others to just breed from them. If they came from a guy who had good breeders they will reproduce like what he saw and then pick out the best to breed from in the coming years.
Even if they are older kit birds? You mess with thier head to have them go through a phase with pulling out thier wing feathers and let them out that way. If you pulled the feather for the molt and didn't fly older birds no problem, but by letting them walk around has caused them to focus on things other than flying and trapping in to eat. Bill C
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2008 9:01 PM
|
Bill C
138 posts
Dec 05, 2008
9:09 PM
|
Rod I suppose he could try and feed them more and flag them up but if it doesn't work in a few days, it might not be worth the trouble he is in for over several weeks and never knowing if the best bird would be one of the culls that wont fly in the kit and just wants to land on wires, the ground or not kit due to lack of training if young birds. BIll C PS Fontanabound, I hope you don't feel affended. Keep reading and you decide what is best for you in this situation. We are here to help! Good Luck with your decision. Bill C
It will be interesting and a learning experience to know what ends up happening in the next week so Keep us informed if you will. Thanks
Last Edited by on Dec 05, 2008 9:12 PM
|
Electric-man
2159 posts
Dec 05, 2008
10:49 PM
|
Talked to my friend Mark Wilson a few minutes ago, he has had pigeons most of his life. He flew homers for years and he is the one that told me about the dishwashing soap on one wing. He has had great success with it. Just soap up the flights on one wing and it washes right out in a couple weeks when you think they are homed. Sounds a lot more logical than pulling them out and waiting weeks for them to grow back.
----------
Val
|
tomas'commerce,ca.
72 posts
Dec 05, 2008
11:26 PM
|
i never pluck my birds i have always used tape the blue painters tape 1" its the best and it wont mess up the feathers and you should only tape about 7 flight feathers on both sides this will keep them from flying try it out it works good.after about 2 or 3 weeks take the tape off and your good to go.as for training i always put my birds in a wire cage (24"x24"x18")and place it on top of my loft for a few hours everyday then they go back into the loft till the next day,dont let them roam around on the ground to long if you do let them only for a very short time like 10 or 15 min. so they get some freedom and they know they are safe in your yard.this is important never feed them till it is time for them to come in,if you feed them before you let them out they will not do what you want because they are not hungry and will stay out as long as they want or until they get hungry again.also dont leave seed in the cage always take a tray or a feeding box whatever you use and just put enough seed for 26 birds which is about 3 or 4 cups of seed.i like my birds to fight for their food if they aint fighting for it they aint hungry.hope this helps good luck and welcome to the site many good people here and lots of good info.
ToMas
5/710
Last Edited by on Dec 06, 2008 10:00 AM
|
fontanabound
7 posts
Dec 06, 2008
7:56 AM
|
hey RodSD, IM STILL WORKING OUT MEASUREMENTS FOR MY BIRDS, AS FOR FEED! THE BIRDS ARE UP TO 30 NOW. AND A FEW WEEKS AGO I WAS LOSEING SOME BIRDS {YUNG ONES} DO TO COMPETITION IN THE BOX. THEY WERE GOING LITE AND THEN DIEING IN A 3 TO 4 DAY PEROID. THIS HAPPEND 3 TIMES. SO I STARTED FEEDING MORE! I WILL SOON BE UPLOADING MY PICTURES,SO YOU GUYS CAN SEE MY BIRDS AND MY SET UP. ANY ONE KNOW WHAT I SHOULD BE FEEDING 30 BIRDS. MIXED WIT YOUNG AND OLD, ABOUT HALF BEENING YOUNG BIRDS.
|
fontanabound
8 posts
Dec 06, 2008
8:31 AM
|
Bill c, im not affended at all buy what i read. i have to make a big decison on whether i really wanna see these birds in action, or if i wanna fly there yung. however i know these birds are of good stock and many are flipping during the very short period they do fly. so i was really excited, about them and wanted to have them homed really well. but i thought these guys would have taken to the sky but as i have said, these birds are yards birds they just love to be on the ground. even when theres no seeds there eating the dam grass!!! i have to chase and flag them up but they just scatter. and to top it off i know this is not the best time to fly birds, but here in cali there is nice weather. mr.cooper has just realized that theres some birds the live in my back yard. but he doesnt know when i will bring them out so hes made a roost near by. but thats all i can say about mr.cooper on this web site. so with him as my neighbor and these ruined birds i think i will have to lean toward breeding them, which kinda sucks cause i dont really know what i have you know. and i will always wonder. cause i really think i have some special one as i will soon show you guys. when i upload some photos
|
brudahpete
286 posts
Dec 06, 2008
8:32 AM
|
When in competition or for kits the feed should be about 1 tablespoon per bird. There are 16 tablespoons in a cup. So with 30 birds roughly 2 cups. You may be needing to separate your young from the old.
Being winter, I feed heavier & with a little more corn in the mix Good luck & I hope you stop losing birds.
|
PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2080 posts
Dec 06, 2008
11:16 AM
|
Mario PPL is people..I use to tell the owner of their houses to do me a favor and stay on there roof with a flag waving since i couldn't go up there like i did in the Bronx when I was a kid,there were 6 story buildings and I would climb the fire escape to get the birds..
Tomas I think 3 or 4 cups is too much for 26 birds.
-----I think -----brudahpete got the measurement right..
Ralph
Last Edited by on Dec 06, 2008 2:49 PM
|
Windjammer Loft
574 posts
Dec 06, 2008
11:23 AM
|
Pete.....You'd better re-check your measurement chart.
Their are 16 tbl equal 1cup, but thats liquid measurements.
When charting feed as a rule: 10 tbl of feed equal 1 cup. which equals 10 birds per cup of feed. Thats how most roller guys figure..
----------
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
|
Bill C
139 posts
Dec 06, 2008
1:15 PM
|
Fontana, The more you talk the more we can see what is going on. You really need to make a few kit boxes to fly out of. They can be large or small. but put in a perch for each bird I have a few extra.
You definately need to fly young birds seperate from the older birds. You also need to feed these birds in seperate cages.
Your older birds will eat more and the young will not get as much to eat and not fly at all. The older ones will eat alot and not want to fly either.
I would get 2X4s and wire,nails ect for Chistmas and make cages and lofts for flying birds ASAP. Look at the pictures guys have posted on here by doing a search on kit boxes and you will see they have several. One for young to train in, second for older birds, third for hold over birds. I use 5 kit boxes and sometimes would like another one so I do not have to put different months flying in the same kit box.
As for your feed 1 tbsp is good to start. I agree that 30 birds would be about 3 cups or even 2 1/2 cups. But you should seperate your birds or this flying a kit will just not work out very well. You will always have problems with birds not flying and landing early with mixed ages of youngsters and birds over 1 year old. Hope you make at least two flying cages! Bill C
|
tomas'commerce,ca.
74 posts
Dec 06, 2008
1:43 PM
|
not to pick a bone on the measurements about how much seed to feed your birds but i do feed 3 to 4 cups for about 25 to 30 birds and they do fight for it so that tells me they are hungry,soon as i put the food in the cage they charge for it and also to the same mixture i add grit so thats why i get 4 cups i should have made that clear the first time.and if i see anything left that they are not eating i take the tray out of the loft.i also don't think those birds are ruined i think they just need to be retrained,remember i had that problem with the birds landing and sitting for long periods at a time on this pole on the freeway,i did what you guys said and it worked basically they needed to be retrained and now most of them birds are flying for 45 min. to an hr. with out ever landing on that pole or anywhere else they come straight to the loft.
Tomas
5/710
Last Edited by on Dec 06, 2008 1:50 PM
|
PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2081 posts
Dec 06, 2008
2:43 PM
|
Good Advise Bill about separation and kitbox.
Tomas I think you right you can retrain these birds.but it also depends on who is doing the training ..but on these advise and different opinions he can get to a head start..
I just put ten full tbl spoon in a measuring cup my wife gave me and I get a little over a half cup 20 tbl I get a whole cup ..plus it depends on the birds you have if I feed 10 birds a whole cup I won't see them for about an hour and high as hell.. and with the measuring I give them they leave a few crumbs imagine that .. I say each family is different.
----------
Ralph
Last Edited by on Dec 06, 2008 2:46 PM
|
mario
GOLD MEMBER
278 posts
Dec 06, 2008
6:33 PM
|
thanks Ralph.......Mario
|