155
930 posts
Dec 12, 2008
1:01 PM
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I have a question! I've heard the question ask, why do people go to England to get roller's. I've read most all the roller material I can get My hands on and I see in 1965 Bill pensom went to England to get more rollers Himself. What was reason I wonder? Why didn't He just go to J. Leroy Smith or Stan Panola if He needed something. If 514 was the real deal and people have created family's out of so many different pigeon's Bill bred, Why would He go to Bill Barrett, O.D.Harris and others to get more birds. Just trying to understand.
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EVILLOFT'S
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j .wanless
542 posts
Dec 12, 2008
1:29 PM
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hi all
155 i are from england but i quite agree with you. i have not been to visit your side yet but i have travelled to a number of countries to watch rollers+ it amazes me why they all think they have to come here for good birds. ive told the s/africans many times they dont need to get any more birds from here as they have birds as good as ours.ive seen all the birds + judged them all in england + there is some good birds + fanciers here .but not as many as they think there is. and with the number of fanciers on your side im sure they dont have to come here for birds.
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3757
1105 posts
Dec 12, 2008
1:53 PM
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J wanless you are so correct.
155 - In my book I have a chapter on this and a hand written letter by Bill Barratt that tells the story. This chapter is dedicated to John Sandoval.
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pacos bill
79 posts
Dec 12, 2008
2:35 PM
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Bill Pensom was no different than any of the rest of us always searching for the best bird with everything he visualized a roller to be obviously he felt that their was more to choose from in the old black country stock which would just because of the total numbers of birds available would in improve the odds of finding that perfect roller to add to his strain also I believe that Plona and J L Smith were very close to the same blood Pensom was breeding and he may have felt that he need a new kick in the line I cant wait to see 3757 book but I don think Smith Plona and Pensom were far apart I think 3757 made this point on a post last week Pacos Bill
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155
931 posts
Dec 12, 2008
3:25 PM
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3757
I've heard that name before. John Sandoval, Al Luna told Me He went to visit Herb Sparks invited by Ron Moden and John Sandoval. Al told Me, back in the day John had a nice set up. Does Mr. Sandoval still fly rollers?
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EVILLOFT'S
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Bill C
145 posts
Dec 12, 2008
7:21 PM
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Jose, you have to realize that in Pensoms day there were not a lot of great rollers around and so he imported the best he could from Englan. I am not sure if it was Leroy or Stan Plona that would not sell his birds to anyone. Once he died many fanciers wanted his birds and still buy thinking they are his today.
Pensom saw the disire to have better qualtiy and better velocity that make the Birmingham roller, not tumblers and those he called "RUBISH" . He brought in many birds even though he had raised champions.
He did not go to Stan or Leroy because he had given them birds. He was the Educator and brought in as much new blood as he could I think. We should be thankful that he did as most all our birds are traced back to his imports. ( Most all )
He did not have the computer age and today we can find or ship birds all over the states. I truely think he saw the same thing going on today in his day. That is people selling birds as the true birmingham rollers when actually they are nothing more than a mixed breed of pigeons on paper calling them rollers when they have probably lost the qualtiy and roll the generation they started pairing them.
SO he will always be the roller king in this country for his contribution to the Birmingham rollers we have today. Bill C
Last Edited by on Dec 12, 2008 7:34 PM
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Bill C
146 posts
Dec 12, 2008
7:28 PM
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There was also the problems of people wanted Pensoms birds because they were great rollers and some started a club and if you had any other roller in your yard that was not a Pensom import related you were kicked out of the club. They even kicked out the Master breeder himself over pedigrees. Can you believe that? Then came the duel purpose rollers that Pensom educated the locals on that you cannot breed for color and performance in the same birds. It just goes on and on. So once again he helped us out by getting all those birds from England from the Top Mater flyers in his Homeland country. Bill C
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KATCHER
16 posts
Jan 17, 2009
10:06 PM
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good stuff guys...
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Windjammer Loft
660 posts
Jan 18, 2009
8:02 AM
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Iam gona put my "head" on the chopping block for this one..... The past was built on Mr. Pensom, so it seems. All well and good. It's good to know history.
This is the way I look at it. The past is gone. We'er in the "NOW". The present day birds are "NOT like the birds that were started with. Right or wrong?? Time to let things go and deal with what we have at our disposal in the present. I think we need to move on!!! Lets "improve" what we have now and not try to improve the "past" I get alittle tired of hearing all about the birds of the past. What was..WAS, and what is..IS. Just my opinion...
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Jan 18, 2009 8:04 AM
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Alohazona
547 posts
Jan 18, 2009
6:16 PM
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Paul,
It's clear that you have respect for Pensom,and are tired about hearing about him presently.
My take on Pensom and his writings are this.When I first read Pensoms books and articles,I was purely a beginner,well maybe not pure,lol.When I ran across other articles,I was at another level and the articles came across with a clearer understanding.I don't fall asleep with Pensom's writings covering my face,but I enjoy referring back to them time and again,as my level of breeding and flying BR's change.Pensom and his writings are a source of knowledge and I apply my everyday experiences to them when I happen to refer back.In that sense I am always learning and applying and re-applying what strikes me as sensible.Pensom has passed,but I have never heard anything from anyone that would discredit him as a solid fundemental source for learning more about the Birmingham roller.Backing up on that last sentence,I have heard alot of BS from fanciers of this present day.The improvement you speak of will always be with the man in the mirror,and that alone.....Aloha,Todd
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stiff
55 posts
Jan 18, 2009
8:26 PM
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155 Herb sparks visits us here every october when he comes here he calls me up and comes over to my place and handle my birds? he always grabs them birds and tells me man these birds are just like the ones he has back home, pensoms.
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Scott
1466 posts
Jan 18, 2009
8:29 PM
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Clay, he does know what they are doesn't he ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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stiff
56 posts
Jan 18, 2009
8:31 PM
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yes scott he likes red 690 thats my best cock I think bred me some good ones
Last Edited by on Jan 18, 2009 8:33 PM
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Windjammer Loft
663 posts
Jan 19, 2009
5:41 AM
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Todd...I completely understand where your comming from
Like I said its just my opinion....thanks
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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pat66
270 posts
Jan 19, 2009
6:26 AM
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Doc, Glad to see your back! Hope your feeling better!
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Pat
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ROBERT RODRIGUEZ
39 posts
Jan 19, 2009
7:47 AM
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EVIL 155 HOW U BEEN? MY ANWER TO YOURE QUESTION JOHN SANDOVAL DOES NOT FLY OUT FROM HIS HOUSE AT THIS TIME HE DOES BREED THOUGH AND I DO ALL THE FLYING 4 HIM HES BEEN A MENTOR AND TEACHER TO ME 4 YEARS I HAVE LEARN A THINK OR TWO FROM HIM GOOD LUCK IN 2009 FLACO
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155
941 posts
Jan 19, 2009
8:20 AM
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SUP ROBERT
I BEEN OK BUT YEA MR.AL LUNA TALK A LOTS OF GOOD THINK ABOUT JOHN SANDOVAL HE WAS TELLING ME THAT
YOU DID THE FLYING WELL HOPE ALL IS WELL WITH YOU
HOPE TO MEET YOU ONE DAY
JOSE
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EVILLOFT'S
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ezeedad
927 posts
Jan 19, 2009
12:20 PM
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Todd,
Fantastic post!! I think that if Paul the fireman put his head on the chopping block,..... there it goes....!! Just kidding Paul. You are a great rolllerman and a credit to the hobby.
But really there is a need to try to fully understand what Pensom brought to the hobby, both in his writings and his birds. There is far too much depth in his book to simply be a quick read.
Those who refuse to learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to relive them.
Paul Gomez
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2332 posts
Jan 19, 2009
12:34 PM
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Ezeedad I don't see Paul the fireman post here.I think you mean Paul Dersch..unless it got deleted
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Ralph
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ezeedad
928 posts
Jan 19, 2009
1:01 PM
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My apologies to Paul Fullerton then...
Thanks, Ralph
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