CVRC
492 posts
Dec 20, 2008
9:48 PM
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who influenced you to start your own line and what blood lines do you have?
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Cristian Castro
CM Loft
CVR
WWW.COACHELLAVALLEYROLLERS.COM
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Flipmode
318 posts
Dec 20, 2008
10:32 PM
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I started my own line just to be different. I got birds from Ernie Trujillo and John Jones. Crossed em up and made my Flipmode(Vida-Jones Line). They are not the best but they keep me smiling. :)
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sundance
942 posts
Dec 20, 2008
10:50 PM
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I think we all make our own lines. Just some are much better than others at it.LOL Some start with a family, or strain and keep it pure, but after a couple generations, it is your own line.
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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norlan hollingate
1290 posts
Dec 21, 2008
12:35 PM
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hi butch
if u get a strain wich someone else has created n u only ever breed pure with n out crosses then they are still the same strain and can never become yours
u always notice this when people come to sell them they always state they are pure this n that im sure u have noticed this
of course the birds are yours from the day u get them but if u keep them pure then u cant take away the mans name who put the time n effort in to produce the birds he wanted [i call it respect]
if u want to call them ur line then u must cross them n do the hard work
PURE IS PURE NO MATTER HOW MANY GENERATIONS
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Scott
1350 posts
Dec 21, 2008
3:09 PM
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You don't need to cross outside to create your own lines or family, the genitic gene pool is vast and it doesn't take but a few generations of a couple of birds to create a line that is pulling further and further away from the original family.
I will use mine as an example, my birds (line) started with 3 birds out of an existing family,many are now into great great and beyond grandchildren.
The carry the combination of the features of those three birds combined.
It took me many years to find those three original pigeons out of the family (KGB),I plowed through countless potential stock birds of the same family to hone in on those three,are they now mine ? you bet.
Lines are just that,linage of particular birds,the prodigy of those lines can create countless other lines,it is never ending as is like the branches of a tree.
My main line I described above,I also have
another,useing a couple of birds which are just a different branch off of my main line,this is to insure that I never have to go outside of the loft for fresh blood.
My opinion is if you have to cross then you aren't starting with the proper stock to begin with.
Scott
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2008 3:55 PM
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Ty Coleman
489 posts
Dec 21, 2008
3:15 PM
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Scott, I agree with your breeding !!! There is no need to reinvent the wheel ! Staying within the gene pool allows you to remove the flaws without bringing new flaws from other family's.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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donnie james
84 posts
Dec 21, 2008
7:52 PM
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i brought my blue almonds off of joe roe back in 1989 and i still have that blood line today i guess i can call my blood line................donny james
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sundance
947 posts
Dec 21, 2008
8:17 PM
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Norman, I ageree with giving a man credit for his hard work in creating a strain. Often a lifetime of work.
However what I meant was more to the effect that, even if you keep a strain pure, you`ve created your own line off that strain.
I`ll use Pensom for example, because almost everyone knows the name and the birds reputation. Even if I had "Pensom" birds. They would not be the same as they would be had William himself bred and raised them. He didnt choose my breeders or stock. And in this case, he hasnt chose Pensom stock birds for several decades now. None of the "pensom" birds of today are really "Pensom" birds. They are Pensom based, but now they are really a line belonging to todays breeder, which happen to be Pensom based.
LOL ... Did any of this ramble make sense?
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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fhtfire
1727 posts
Dec 21, 2008
8:36 PM
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Nobody really influenced me to start my own family....It was just something that had to be done....with two remaining families that I had..both had weak and strong points....ones weak was the others strong...so I said what the hell...the second reason ......is that I did not want to ride anybody elses coat tails...I wanted to develop my own family...
As far as the Morts and the Rubys...as I look at there background...they are off the same tree just a different branch....I see a strong family as a Tree and the branches are what others have done with the main family...so I married branches together to start my own tree.....
I just wanted to put the best of both strains together and it worked....but I still had to really pay attention to what I was looking for and go with it....so far so good..
rock and ROLL
Paul
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2176 posts
Dec 21, 2008
8:46 PM
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You can take a line and maintain it and after a while it yours you don't have to cross into it to make it yours ..you are selecting the pigeons that have the genes you are looking for lets say a very fast spinner with the H pattern the style you like and you breed that to a v pattern or a slow spinner or an out bird now you starting go take that line down.now are you going to say its so and so or its your line.he bred it for ten years but he selected by culling strong you see now because I didn't cross it is it right to say its his line,no its my line now I put the breeders together. I'm taking full responsibility for the outcome weather good or bad .because not every gene that's comes out that family is going to be good.you can take a good pure family and in one year without proper selection screw them all up and the line is still pure because you didn't bring in a cross... but is it a true Birmingham Roller ..ones I pick them and pair them up its my line..but I still give the breeder the respect by saying it came from so and so..
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brudahpete
343 posts
Dec 21, 2008
11:16 PM
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Ralph, I couldn't agree with you more. I think your birds become exactly what you put into them, they become yours as you work with them, but the person that got you started with them does deserve recognition. I believe, that in this hobby, everyone has a mentor. Often our mentor is the person we got our birds from. I hope to be a great mentor for someone in this hobby, even if it's one or two of my own kids.
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norlan hollingate
1302 posts
Dec 22, 2008
10:18 AM
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if someone creates a strain by crossing wat he likes to produce wat he likes i.e. depth speed frequency with all the hard work they become that persons strain or line
if another man takes this strain and just keeps reproducing it nothing changes
if u done blood test or dna this would be proven
if u want to call them ur own strain or line then do the hard work of producing ur own
doesernt matter if there yours or someone elses we all have to go through them to see wat we want if they were all good it would be boreing
if u think that by sorting them makes them your strain then good on you lol
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rollerman132
329 posts
Dec 22, 2008
1:17 PM
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I got my birds from three different people, who got them from the same person. Doesn’t that make them mine? Why screw up a lifetime of work just to put your name on it. Only fools chase after fame, true fame comes on its own.
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Hector Coya
334 posts
Dec 22, 2008
1:27 PM
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The thing is ,if you got the best birds from the top breeder,with exelent speed and deph,and didnt croos anything in,10 years later you still got exelent birds with speed and deph,What have you done? nothing ,there still exelent birds with speed and deph.
Unles you do somthing diferent, like bring in a bird from some new family,and cross them,then you havent done crap,,
I have a few first generation ofspring from my Bob Scott,there not my line i havent put anything in them ,now if i put a crest on them then ther my line ,,LOL
Hector Coya-SGVS
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Scott
1352 posts
Dec 23, 2008
11:54 PM
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Hector, if it is so easy you should be on top with those Bob Scott birds shouldn't you ? but you aren't,that is because a family is never done as it is ever changing with each and every bird due to selection.
Norman, I will take the credit for my birds after generations and well over a decade of selection , not a problem.
My friend Dave Mosely birds all go back to six pigeons out of a family well over 3 decades ago, maybe you might want to take this subject up with him when you see him.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2992 posts
Dec 24, 2008
1:10 AM
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Hey Hector, I don't want to get in the way of these opinions, but to paraphrase you, when you say that if all you have done is to keep up the quality of the rollers you started with, you haven't done anything, I have to respectfully disagree with you.
Let me point you to "allaboutscience.org". Here are a couple quotes regarding The Second Law of Thermodynamics (of which I know absolutely little)
Second Law of Thermodynamics - Increased Entropy
The Second Law of Thermodynamics is commonly known as the Law of Increased Entropy...Entropy is also a gauge of randomness or chaos within a closed system(a loft for example). As usable energy is irretrievably lost (predetermined pairings for perpetuating roll), disorganization, randomness and chaos increase.(loss of roll or other desired traits)". Words in parenthesis are mine
In other words, when we allow a loft of finely bred rollers to pair up on their own, the rolling quality will deteriorate on its own over time. The only way to prevent this is when a fancier makes the proper pairings and continue the qualities the family is known for.
So, the Second Law of Thermodynamics proves that a roller fancier that has only "maintained" the quality has in all actuality accomplished something of substance. Scott is correct to take credit for his efforts.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by on Dec 24, 2008 1:48 AM
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j .wanless
569 posts
Dec 24, 2008
4:28 AM
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hi all
some good posts on here.when some one has spent a lot of years building his own family .and like scott said it takes a lot of years to get them .why on earth do people feel the need to go + mess them up .because they have someone else/s name on them.once i let someone take birds from my place they become thier birds + strain.because like stated earlier .the new owner can never breed exactly the same as the original breeder.so becoming his own family with out spoiling them by out crossing them.
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Hector Coya
345 posts
Dec 24, 2008
7:33 AM
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Scott
You said if it was that easy i whould be on top,
Well Scott, checkout my club website scores, im usualy on top.
Its only a club with 16 members but its somethin dont you think?
ive won flyer of the year and or been in the top 3 for a few years now.its not me the breeder i just started with good birds.
On the big flys ive been unfortunate like anyone els can be,ive DQ for simple reasosns that i have about 20 tolephone wires 20 ft from my loft and peaking the birds for comp day has made them roll through the wires and hurt themselfs,the last 2 years.just bad luck,im not saying i whould have done great but i could have scored decent points.
I just think it takes years to get credit from a line you want to call yours.
Like i said ,i have Bob Scott birds i got from Bob in 1982,those are dead and gone and ive bred many generations from the originals,but i also have B,Scott birds that just died of old age this year,there last young came from 2 originals,with those i dont think ive done anything to call my line..
Hector Coya-SGVS
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Scott
1353 posts
Dec 24, 2008
8:23 AM
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Hector, I don't pay much attention to scores in any fly,and normaly I only pay attention to the big flys finals fly, but it is all a start,good luck in the future !
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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