s.cha
4 posts
Dec 28, 2008
7:35 PM
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this may seem i like a dumb question but what do you guys feed your flyers and how much?
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2242 posts
Dec 28, 2008
8:21 PM
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Its not a dumb question ...I feed a mix and a roughly table spoon per birds depending on who needs more they get it..its really no right measurement its learning from your birds and what they need not what they want-----good question..-----
Ralph
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s.cha
5 posts
Dec 28, 2008
9:08 PM
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what kind of mix.....i was thinking on giving only milo but wat else do i need to mix.
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Norm_Knox
249 posts
Dec 28, 2008
9:31 PM
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s.cha you cant feed only milo as its very low on protein. What you want to do is get some red wheat,milo, and australian peas. Than what you do is feed your fliers roughly 50/50 of wheat and milo (re-adjust as needed, add or take away as you need) Give peas once every one to two weaks. The biggest thing is having some sort of dirrection but you will have to find out what works best for you, BUT try and follow what I suggested if you want...Hope it helps
Norm
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N/A Loft
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cballlofts
7 posts
Dec 29, 2008
6:00 AM
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S.Cha,
It mostly depends on what family of Birds You have.
I fly My Jacs on straight wheat. I know guys that fly
on a mix. I know other Guys that use pelleted feed.
Talk to whoever You got Your Birds from and go from
there. YITS.
Chuck
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quality
63 posts
Dec 29, 2008
6:12 AM
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I feed my flyers strictly wheat, usually Western Wheat. Milo I use if the birds are flying too low, but perfer white field peas. Milo seems to make the kit spread out to much.
I would not feed as much as a tablespoon, more like a teaspoon. 1 pint of wheat should feed 35 to 40 birds.
Your kit birds should always be hungry. I have had visitors to the coop & have had comments that it must be feeding time. When I respond that they were just fed, guys say I under feed.
Too much feed & they fly too long, not enough & they fly too short.
Your birds should fly around 1 hour, land & trap within 10 minutes looking for feed, but do not feed for an hour or so, let them cool down first or some will just puke it back up.
Watch for birds getting down to much & feed them up.
Yours in the Hobby
Don Lunau
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J_Star
1817 posts
Dec 29, 2008
6:45 AM
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Chuck and Don...Do you guys have a problem with your kit skying out! I know you do Chuck because we've talked and we fly the same family. Wheat is just a tool in the tool box to me and it is used wisely, however, it is the base feed.
Jay
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j .wanless
578 posts
Dec 29, 2008
7:03 AM
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hi all
this is a good subject as ive got mine out now + theyre too high thats why im on here.every ones birds are diffrent also we all live in diffrent climates or areas.after keeping rollers for about 40 year im still looking for that magic feed. there isnt one.like jay said wheat is a good start but not an all.its about experimenting until you find what suites your birds.
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quality
68 posts
Dec 29, 2008
10:04 AM
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My birds get just wheat & fly 200 to 300 ft.. Theres always a breeze. If anything it's to get my birds off the ground, so I use the white field peas when it's warmer & the red milo when it's cooler.
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Yours in the Hobby
Don Lunau
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J_Star
1818 posts
Dec 29, 2008
11:33 AM
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200 to 300 feet is flight for disaster. That height is dangerous to fly rollers. They barely clear tree tops to allow for their control to take place. Rollers need to be at 600 to 700 feet when they perform. Wheat alone will not give that height at consistent bases unless you are starving your birds to be at the 200 to 300 range or flying youngsters.
Jay
Last Edited by on Dec 29, 2008 11:35 AM
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sippi
597 posts
Dec 29, 2008
6:22 PM
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Jay where do you live that has trees that high. Our timber is around a hundred years old here and it is only eighty to a hundred feet high. Too we are flat as a pancake here. I like my birds to fly around three hundred feet. They will commit at that hieght and I can see whats happening. I tried straight wheat and they had stability problems. I switched to wheat and milo and they flew too low. I now have them on wheat and about ten percent austrian peas. They fly from three to six hundred feet. I am now starting to cut the feed with milo to get a more stable hieght preferably three to four hundred feet.
Its all in the family you fly. I got some birds from Cliff which are the same family as mine but his required more protien. They have been seperated only a short time but Cliff and I breed and feed differently. My birds readily adjusted to the higher protien feed though. Other than that you cant tell them apart. I was amazed that the so few years could make that much difference.
Sippi
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cballlofts
8 posts
Dec 29, 2008
6:52 PM
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Jay,
My high flying problems started when I was feeding the
hard red wheat. 3 or 4 months ago I started feeding
white wheat again and My Birds are flying around 300
feet on a regular basis now. Red wheat is about
14% protein, White wheat is around 10%. My Jacs don't need much protein to fly the time and height that is required of them. I know several guys that fly these Jacs on straight white wheat with the results they want. Like Sippi said, He has Cliff"s Birds, and they require different feed for Him than Cliff.Normal trees
are 80 to 100 feet tall. If someones Birds are flying
600 feet, they could never see them enough to judge
them. JMHO,
Chuck
Last Edited by on Dec 29, 2008 6:53 PM
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2248 posts
Dec 29, 2008
9:14 PM
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The highest tree where I live is 3O feet .and that's a coconut tree...I like them flying low around 400 to 500 you really get to enjoy the show .now if you got a .2 second roller rolling 20 feet from the the earth he is a gonna ..lol..
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Ralph
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J_Star
1819 posts
Dec 30, 2008
7:15 AM
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You guys are misjudging your distance. An electric or telephone pole is about 40 to 45 feet long. 4 poles make around 200 feet give or take. Mature trees grow to about 100 to 120 feet (give or take) in my neck of the woods. When the birds spin they drop down and the rest of the kit drops also at times, which will cause the birds to spin into the trees.
500 to 700 feet is the optimal height for judging. If you have a range finder you will notice from the reading that this height is not too high. At that height the kit will have the best confidence to show you what it is made out of and they won't flirt with early landing. Most the time, they will avoid hawks harrasment at that height.
Chuck, then what you are saying is that you solved your skying out problem!! I doubt it and I will get the scoop down the road from Cliff to keep you honest buddy :) Usually Red Wheat contains more protein and will keep the birds lower and White Wheat has less protein and will get the birds athletically fit to sky out. Been there done that. As you notice Sippi had to cut his feed down with Peas...Why!!
I also have some of Cliff's birds (Turner) and they feed no different than mine and they look no different than mine. If I don't tell you which is which, you will never guess. Pigeons are hardy and they get accustomed to anything. You are the boss not them.
Jay
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2008 7:44 AM
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cballlofts
9 posts
Dec 30, 2008
7:35 AM
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jay,
Yes, I have solved My skying out problem!, and I don,t
appreciate being called a liar! The only times Cliff sees My Birds fly are the WC and National Championship
Fly. So you are saying you know more than all of the
guys that feed straight wheat? Whatever. How's your
scores been in the comps?, or do you compete?
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J_Star
1820 posts
Dec 30, 2008
7:46 AM
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Chuck, chill...no reason to become defensive or offended. This what discussion is all about.
Jay
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2008 7:47 AM
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
104 posts
Dec 30, 2008
7:49 AM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
I like to keep my birds at 300-400 feet as well. Birds rolling from 20-50 feet should have no problem correcting themselves with the couple hundred feet they have left. I have never had birds roll into trees...Protien is a source of energy after all it is converted to nitrogen, so the more you have, the more fuel (energy) you have in your birds, this is why athletes eat protien bars.
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J_Star
1821 posts
Dec 30, 2008
8:02 AM
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Lipper,
I don’t want to go into further discussion here to piss off others since I value Chuck’s friendship and others. But when I eat Steak I feel very heavy and less energetic for the next many hours. Protein builds muscle not gives energy.
Jay
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j .wanless
579 posts
Dec 30, 2008
8:30 AM
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hi all
this is a subject im really intrested in .as at times my birds like today drive me mad flying too long.
before any of you start jumping in .let me tell you im an old hand at flying rollers,theres not a single type of corn that i have not tried.and also theres not a single feed that works on my birds consistantly.
i believe its either bred in my birds .or its got to do with the area i live in.which is about 8 mile from the sea.i have no probs with them as y/brds .only when they become yearlings.now i stopped using just wheat about 15 year ago as i was getting too many fly aways.ive starved them + ive also fed them up a little
and both ways has worked to an extent .but only for the short time. out of probly 30 flyers in my area i reckon theres probly 2 guys that dont have the probs of thier birds going high.but they fly what i call soft rollers + the rest of us fly the hard fast birds
its this what i think makes the birds go high quite often.like i said i have tried all the corns there is
i know its not the corn.
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
108 posts
Dec 30, 2008
8:36 AM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Jay, I think this is a very important discussion here, I am sorry that some of you are arguing about it. As far as height goes while flying, I feel this should be left up to what works for each individual. Nutrition on the other hand needs to be addressed constantly to make sure new fliers have an idea of what is needed.
Protein is one of the three macronutrients that your body needs for survival. Macronutrients are nutrients that pigeons need in large amounts. The other two macronutrients are carbohydrates and fat. Proteins supply the same amount of energy as carbohydrates. One gram of protein gives about 4 calories when it is combined with oxygen in the body. The body's primary need is for energy. It will ignore the special functions of protein if it needs energy and no other source is available. However, we don't want our birds to have to rely on protein for energy. It needs to be used for important body building, repair and maintenance work Getting the amount of carbohydrates they need is important in order that protein won't be used as a source of energy
What Proteins Do:
Build and repair all body tissues.
Regulate body processes.
Maintain fluid balance.
Form hormones and enzymes.
Help form antibodies to fight infection.
Supply energy.
Protein is a part of every living cell. Many different kinds of proteins form vital parts of the body. Examples include muscles, connective tissue and other tissues such as skin,feathers, proteins in blood, enzymes, hormones and immune bodies.
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Alohazona
528 posts
Dec 30, 2008
9:27 AM
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Jay,throw alittle honey on it, and hell, I'd eat that,LOL.
I feed seperate grains and adjust accordingly,I have a good grasp on what they do on there own,but I constantly have to modify.I also try to keep it simple,so I can remember.Wheat,milo,sometimes austrian peas or vetch if I can get it,a smidge of either canary seed,safflower or flax as needed.For comps.,I will pick two grains and offer a brewers yeast boost.I think the weather always has to be considered,as well as keeping it simple....Aloha,Todd
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2250 posts
Dec 30, 2008
9:59 AM
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Chuck, chill...no reason to become defensive or offended. This what discussion is all about.
Jay
Jay that is why we have to be careful with the words we choose when we are debating or what ever you want to call it .calling someone a liar is a reason to get defensive or offended is was done to me not too long ago here too..
Lipper that post is right on the money.." Getting the amount of carbohydrates they need is important in order that protein won't be used as a source of energy."
when a bird doesn't have any more reserve of fat and carbohydrate are completely depleted, like in racing homers they come home with wasted breast muscles that's because they using the protein of muscle as a source of energy .so in reality it is not a energy food
is a building block of muscles and repair of damage muscles and other tissues.. but will be use as a last resort as in the case above.and from reading about feeding the guys that do compete some say if the birds need to go higher feed more wheat and if you want them lower give milo or 50/50..some birds don't react well to a diet like that for instance if I give that to my birds they will crash over here.. like John stated is different environment .different familys.. is a never ending thing learning and trying to master this feeding thing.if it was that easy everybody be in the top ten..that is what makes it fun...
Ralph
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2008 10:30 AM
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J_Star
1823 posts
Dec 30, 2008
10:19 AM
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Ralph Thanks for the reminder. However, I did not call anybody a liar. Chuck is not any ordinary guy. He is my friend. I was surprised by his remark because my remark was just sarcastic. From knowing him, I know he has thick skin. If he can put up with the New Yorker, he can put up with anybody. Any way, live and learn and I will address him appropriately.
Jay
Last Edited by on Dec 30, 2008 10:28 AM
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sippi
598 posts
Dec 30, 2008
4:05 PM
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Feeding is the one area that I think I need a lot more info on. Other areas too but feeding the most. When I got the birds from Cliff I tried feeding them like I feed mine. Wheat/milo/pig pellets in equeal thirds. I had them bouncing like pingpong balls inside a week. I contacted Cliff and turns out his feed is much higher protien than mine. The problem I had/have is that I had never seen "hard red winter wheat" until the last two bags I bought. I probably wont get it again as we usually can only get white wheat. I had to feed the birds up really well, two cups, to get them able to come out of the kit box without bouncing. This took a week. I started with straight wheat and the birds flew dangerously low(mostly my birds pulling the kit down) I had twelve from Cliff and eleven I raised last year. I started adding austrian peas once a week, then twice a week and then hit on the ten percent every day. They fly good hieght most of the time but go too high sometimes in the first twenty minutes which makes it a problem.
As to hieght I have to agree with Chuck on six hundred being too high. I have the luxury/displeasure of having a cross Florida power transmission line crossing the property. My birds fly most times above or adjacent to it. The poles are eighty feet high and the cross arms are twenty feet from the top of the pole. So I have twenty, sixty, and eighty feet laid out for me all the time to judge by.
I was just sitting here thinking about my two hundred yard rifle range and six hundred feet isnt too high. I am going to have to reevaluate my thinking. Think I will do the old pigeon in a cage down the range.
Most people have trouble estimating distance, particularly straight up. The power line helps me a lot plus I shoot a lot at long distance. My power poles are also spaced at three hundred thirty yards for as far as the eye can see. I am pretty good at estimating distance. But not near as good since I starting having to have glasses.
sippi
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Flipmode
323 posts
Dec 30, 2008
4:59 PM
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The feeding thing has always given me a headache! lol. I just feed em 16% and all they want.
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quality
78 posts
Dec 31, 2008
5:07 AM
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When I received my "English" birds, I was told how to feed them by Jay Lucarelli. Jay went to England & stayed at Bob Brown's & learned about his birds & came home with 15 pair.
The feeding regiment Bob uses did not work here.
I've experimented over the years. My birds work best on Canadian Western wheat.
Yes they are starving, Yes they fly 200 to 300 ft.
No I have never had a fly away kit. No birds are not bouncing off the ground.
It's all in the climate & weather where you live.
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Yours in the Hobby
Don Lunau
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j .wanless
580 posts
Dec 31, 2008
5:31 AM
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hi all
don your spot on as i said earlier it depends on diffrent areas.ive noticed the diffrence in a small country like england.also ive sent a lot of birds to s/africa .mine would not survive here on what they feed theres on.like you said you have to experiment on diffrent corns to find what suites your birds.but also like jay said if you change your corn you have to give it time to work.i would suggest 2 weeks.
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Windjammer Loft
627 posts
Dec 31, 2008
6:54 AM
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I sure hope you guys don't just feed 1 or 2 kinds of seed all the time. Pigeons can't survive on just 1 or 2 seeds..
Like Mike stated they need the varity to get all the nutrician they need.
I vary me feed. At times I feed a 16% pigeon mix,at times I feed 50/50 wheat milo mix and my breeders get pellets with some wheat or milo mixed with it. And corn, for heat when the temps get down below 32 degrees.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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wishiwon2
111 posts
Dec 31, 2008
6:23 PM
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This has been a good thread, nice to read about rollers and flying them for a change ... Instead of "whats up homie?" or "At the show the other day ...."
I have a couple of comments to add to the above. You fellows are right that different grains have different effects on how the birds fly (height, activity, quality, etc). There are no set recipes that will work all the time and in all places. Even when you find a recipe that gets you what you want, it will only last for a while. Too many things change, the birds fitness, thier age, weather, barometric pressure ... on and on.
It is my opinion, a flier needs to feed individual grains and observe what your birds do when eating only that grain for a cpl of weeks. It takes a week-10 days for a change in feed to show its full effects. You may see a short-term (3-5 day) boost in response to a new grain but the initial boost will wear off after 2 weeks and you will see what that feed does to the birds. After you learn how each grain affects your birds you can make educated adjustments to alter you kits behaviors as you desire. Because things are so variable you must be able to continue to adapt with your feeding regimen.
No one can tell you what to feed, or how much because as has been astested to above, every circumstance is unique. Yes, there are a few general principles that are applicable on a broad scale, but you need to know how to adapt and modify your feed to fit what your kit is doing and how you want them to change.
This feeding concept is as important as breeding with regards to flying top kits of rollers. It is complicated and requires time to learn. I only wish it were as simple as feeding a Tsp per bird of straight red wheat ... From summer to winter I have to double my feed ration to keep them alive. And yes, rollers can live and do fairly well on a single grain. Ive done it in the past. I prefer now to use a variety put together to create the results I want from my kits.
Another thing, when you make adjustments in feed, dont get real radical and make huge changes. Make incremental adjustments and allow a few days of flying in between to evaluate the effect.
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Jon
"had fun, wish i won 2"
If it were easy, everybody would do it ...
Last Edited by on Dec 31, 2008 6:25 PM
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2257 posts
Dec 31, 2008
6:38 PM
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Good post Jon..
See s.cha it wasn't a dunb question..
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Ralph
Last Edited by on Dec 31, 2008 6:39 PM
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