brudahpete
373 posts
Jan 05, 2009
9:51 AM
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Well, here's the 6 Bellnecks that Tom Monson sent to me via a friend.
I'm going to be moving them into a new loft that I built for them tomorrow. The plan is to bred the roll back into them using the best to best method.
Last Edited by on Jan 11, 2009 7:52 AM
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spinningdemon
158 posts
Jan 05, 2009
10:06 AM
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Pete,
Very nice best of luck with them. Let me know if you need any thing or any questions.
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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winwardrollers
81 posts
Jan 05, 2009
11:48 AM
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Pete
You will find some roll in the bellneck. I had some 10 years ago and siffed through them until I found some solid 15 ft stable birds. A guy came along and I loaned them out to him for a year... then when I went to get them back...the guy had sold them.
I am sure that Tom informed you that he has been breeding them for the bellneck marking on the birds for years. Its the marking not the roll they are breed for. They do make some great fosters, the bellnecks I had feed the young until they were ready to pop.
Brad winward
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jnyce
459 posts
Jan 05, 2009
11:58 AM
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how long will this project take you
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jerry t
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brudahpete
374 posts
Jan 05, 2009
12:32 PM
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Tom told me that they do roll but not to consistently. I'm making this a priority project as I have nothing but time! I'm pretty much a back yard flyer and just enjoy the birds. Brad, thanks for your help with getting Tom in touch with me, he is a class act and is extremely helpful.
David, I'll be in touch, I may want to get a round off of yours just for new blood. I jumped at these as they're right out of Tom's loft. I won't pair them up until the end of February though.
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BA Rollers
159 posts
Jan 05, 2009
12:56 PM
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My bellnecks are from Tom. Actually they are his fathers. The family of bellnecks has been bred by Monson Sr. for well over 40 years, and they are very inbred. I have flown ones I raised out and they do everything our birds do, except roll properly. The ones I flew, of the ones that actually did something, it wasn't more than 5-10 ft and was more of a tumbling action. But they will fit right into a kit of rollers no problem. And yes they do make great fosters. I use them for my short face breeds with success. Mine are now bred strictly for show.
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brudahpete
375 posts
Jan 05, 2009
1:23 PM
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BA, I'd like to pick your brain, drop me a line please. brudahpete@gmail.com Thanks
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Hector Coya
383 posts
Jan 05, 2009
7:38 PM
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Nice looking birds,
My question is,if Monson Sr has inbred this family for well over 40 years and the birds do everything our rollers do,exept roll properly,why whould you bother?
why is it that nobody gives him crap for breeding for color ,is it becouse his name?
Ive had my crest for 4 years and the once that dont rolldown are some of the best and fastes rollers many people have ever seen.
i dont think it should take over 40 years and the birds are still that bad.
Hector Coya-SGVS
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2281 posts
Jan 05, 2009
7:46 PM
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Good question Hector I was thinking that too..seen like they can't get any better if its 40 yrs in the making.
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Ralph
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brudahpete
377 posts
Jan 05, 2009
8:08 PM
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Thomas S. Monson has been in an extremely high office in his church for many years and is now the President of the LDS church,12 million + members world-wide. Hardly time to spend with his creation (bellnecks). Tom Jr. has been keeping them going while working on his own birds. The bellnecks were bred for color thus giving up much of the roll. Seeing that Thomas S. Monson has no time to try & restart the roll in his birds, a guy like me that has plenty of time is very happy to do it. He's a personal hero of mine for many more reasons than birds. The time frames of creating the color was probably more like 55 years in the making.
I would like to take these birds & breed best to best to restart the roll. Like these other fellers said, the roll is still there, it's just dormant. They do roll but they're lacking in form & control. I'd like to see them emerge as a great family of birds.
Last Edited by on Jan 05, 2009 8:10 PM
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2283 posts
Jan 05, 2009
8:25 PM
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Pete how would you put the depth into them if mostly all are 10 to 15 .are you planing on crossing them or you don't care about the depth ..just curious ..sound like you are going to be busy which is the fun part and I wish you the best with them..
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Ralph
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BA Rollers
160 posts
Jan 05, 2009
8:35 PM
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Hector, it is my understanding that Tom Sr. didn't have them for performance but rather just for the "having". If memory serves me correctly (I could be wrong) but I believe Tom told me they have been used as fosters too. Tom Jr. has been taking care of them for years while his dad has been busy with the church.
There are some bellneck rollers out there that are said to be good performers. I believe Danny Courtney has commented before on Earls that he has a stud of them and some of them have made his A team in the past.
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brudahpete
378 posts
Jan 05, 2009
8:37 PM
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I'm going to try & get every bird in the loft to be a consistent 10-20 footer. I won't cross them with anything but another bellneck from the same family. I want to keep them as close to the original in color as I can. I have nothing but time.
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Hector Coya
384 posts
Jan 05, 2009
9:28 PM
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I wish all the luck,thats what makes breeding fun ,the challenge of what can you improve,best to you and your birds,,Hector Coya-SGVS
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brudahpete
379 posts
Jan 06, 2009
5:11 AM
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Thanks guys.
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spinningdemon
160 posts
Jan 06, 2009
5:24 AM
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I have my bellnecks mostly for the nostalgia aspect of having them and having them direct from Tom Sr. and his son Tom Jr. is real neat. I know of several folks that have them and are working on the roll.
Gar Workman has a group that are very athletic. J.P. Isom has some that he flies that do pretty well. I have seen some do 15' spins and in the mid 80's I had some that were good performers. I think I am going to get mine out of the feeder mode and have them raise a few rounds for me to see whats and if I could get some to roll. I have some baldheads that are real deep and fast spinners if a person wanted to add depth a bald head like that would be a great choice since they are both pie-bald marked birds.
But just by selecting the best young with in the group and keeping darn good records and inbreeding the family more for roll I think that a person could get a good family of spinning birds.
It might be hard to do though if you just have birds that are loose tumblers to work with. But I am on the band wagon Pete and I will try to get some spin in these birds.
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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Velo99
2030 posts
Jan 06, 2009
5:30 AM
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As an uninterested observer with no opinion but my own. This is the classic result of color/marking breeding. Misters Monson bred for a certain marking versus the performance the birds were originally bred for.
I applaud their dedication to the project. The results are strikingly similar and beautiful.
In the average rollermans loft they are culls. Pretty culls. From the description they still possess a bit of the roll and other characteristics. Putting the roll back in is going to be a challenge. I would be interested to see if the marking stays put. The only question; was another breed used to set the marking in the birds? I think not,just a hunch.
Good luck in your endeavor
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V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
___ ~_____
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__14___()_)\__\
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2009 5:32 AM
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brudahpete
380 posts
Jan 06, 2009
7:04 AM
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Velo99, I appreciate your comments, I don't think there was another breed used. Heck, I have nothing but time! I'm a prison guard with nothing else better to do! Lol! This project will give me a lot of stress relief and, I'm sure, a ton of satisfaction.
David, sorry for pricking your interest! You now see what I'd like to do and, frankly, these birds deserve a little attention. I'm working on a website to keep a good chronology of events that I'll post later.
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Windjammer Loft
640 posts
Jan 06, 2009
7:52 AM
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Great post Pete... This,by far has to be one of the "more" interesting and informative posts. Keep up the good work and "best" of luck to you with your Bellneck project....
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2009 7:56 AM
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winwardrollers
82 posts
Jan 06, 2009
8:41 AM
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Pete
I just looked up some old records.
1995 Blue Bellneck Hen--From Parley Dutson's Loft.. she had a dark, dark, blue belle small and typy.
1995 Red Bellneck Cock--Gar Workman loft..The cock had a lighter red belle and had a bent beak and was the best roller of the bunch.
I had rolldowns. flippers, nonrollers and the 15ft red cock above.
I didn't have room for them when I loaned them out.
I'm pretty sure that they are Both from Monson's Loft just not sure of Parleys birds.
Good Luck
Brad winward
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2009 8:43 AM
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brudahpete
381 posts
Jan 06, 2009
9:49 AM
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Hey,Brad thanks. I just got my new website up & running as well.
http://www.freewebs.com/brudahpete/
Check it out & tell me what you think. I'm going in for surgery so I won't be online until tomorrow evening.
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2009 9:50 AM
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spinningdemon
164 posts
Jan 06, 2009
12:45 PM
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Brad the Gar Workman birds are from Tom Monson. I do not know Parley Dutson.
Brad do you know if Blake C. is flying his bellnecks? I know that he got them Gar. Also if you have Blakes e-mail could you PM it to me? I had it but when I send a message it always comes back.
Pete I wish the best with your surgery I did not know you had it coming up nothing serious I pray.
Also I am going to get some real performing Komoners from Gar and I will check up on his bellnecks when I am there and let you know.
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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BA Rollers
161 posts
Jan 06, 2009
12:46 PM
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Kenny, the bellneck marking is one within the breed. It is actually in most breeds where piebald is present. The bellneck marking is a form of pie bald, much like genes for white flights, beard, badge, saddle, etc. I've raised them from a pair of badges. I raised one last year that was sort of a mis-marked bellneck/baldhead. For some reason the bellneck marking is a powerful, sort of dominant marking in the way it acts. Once you have it, you can reproduce the heck out of it just by keeping some bellneck marked birds in the pie bald gene pool. I work with piebald in various different breeds and my impression is that the bellneck markings is not so much a set gene, but culmination of uncontrolled, unset pie bald genes that together create what we know as the bellneck marking. As some have noted, you cannot go beyond the bellneck markings. You can raise them with more color, but not less.
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speedball
40 posts
Jan 06, 2009
3:10 PM
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yo brother pete dem saddlebacks sure do look mighty fine from here. hows they like in sky?
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donnie james
133 posts
Jan 06, 2009
8:32 PM
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i want to wish you all the best with your bell necks ..............donny james
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