Newbie 08
53 posts
Jan 07, 2009
4:30 PM
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I just got back into the hobby July 2008. I built an open loft with two 3X3X3 wire aivery attached on the side as well as 2X2 wired screen on front for plenty of air circulation. thus far I've been through about 32 birds since then losing a few to predators taking a few back to the feed store i got them from that were culls to me. would not fly much and a few did not trap back in leaving me with about 18 that were settled and flew about 6 days a week until first week in November when the BOP made me lock down. Although I only flew these 18 birds for 3 months I was really impressed with the performance of about 80% of them some more than others depth, volocity and tight spin. They all kit tight and really well a good team of birds which consistantly flew 30 to 45 mins and always trapped less than 5 mins after landing.All 08 birds some Tony's 08 Ruby's. Being they were locked down since November 8th 2008 a few weeks later I noticed pairs were pairing up on there own which I just let them do so being that from what i saw from the 3 months i flew them they seem to be pairing up with mates similar to themselves. now i have 8 pairs either sitting on squabs or eggs. the oldest 5 squabs being 18 and 16 days old. The youngest 2 squabs 7 and 5 days old and and 4 more pairs will be hatching in the next 10 to 12 days. I notice the pairs of the oldest squabs are starting to mate again which I'm sure they are going to produce more eggs. Before I keep letting these pairs produce I'd like to get the young in the air and see do they meet my criteria before I let the parents just keep producing. I've heard some people throw out a lot of eggs. I really don't want to do this.My loft is 5X5X5. Since lock down I've purchased another 8 Ruby's squeekers that I've yet to fly which puts me at 26 birds in the loft not counting the squabs. With the squabs and eggs thus far that puts me at 40 birds and counting which right now is too many. Ok now that I've given my situation I have a few questions
1. How many birds should be held in a 5X5X5 loft
2. Should I build another loft for just the cocks and break the pairs up after I ween the young until I fly and see the performance of their young to ensure they are producing what I'm looking for in a roller.
3. should I let the parents ween the young or should I take them out of the nest and put them on the loft floor at a certain age and if so what age?? I like what I saw in the air in the 3 month period I flew these 8 pairs and figured they would get better as they got older being they were 08.but I will not know what the young will do until I fly them which will not be until March 09. My goal is to have 4 good breeder pairs 6 holdovers and a 20 bird A kit that I fly. weeding out keeping only the best of 30 birds. looks like they breed like rabbits and if you don't control the breeding you could have 100 birds in a very short period of time. not that serious for me.Plus I hear the real mating season isn't even here yet ??? Wow can I get some advice my goal is quality no so much as of quanity
Butch~~~
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2009 7:29 PM
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Newbie 08
59 posts
Jan 07, 2009
7:19 PM
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at this point much as I hate too i may have to chuck eggs until I build another loft to seperate pairs until their first round have proven to produce. My goal is 8 pairs 2 round of squabs per year to give me time to access. after the 2nd round of squabs if don't get the out come i desire then pairs are broken up seperated and the young will to go maybe even the breeders depending on their individual performance. I figure after flying 6 to 7 months I should have a good ideal rather the birds produced are making the grade or to discard. too early for me to start thinking about fosters. I'm trying to breed 30 footers tight consistant spin with the volocity, smart and intelligent birds who know their job is to perform in concert with the others in the kit. tight form and volocity is more important to me than depth. So My focus is only on a bird that not only has the talent but the intelligence to understand the purpose of it's good life of food shelter and is game for the training to reach the objectives just like the job of an athelete the gift alone doesn't win the championship, training and the desire for excellence are the main factor of longevity and consistancy.
Butch~~~
Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2009 7:34 PM
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2293 posts
Jan 07, 2009
8:55 PM
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butch do what CVrollers suggested .I for one never breed my birds until a year to a year and a half.they have to give me a reason to breed them wanting more is not enough .If you breed a bird that is so young its only as young as its mother.me personally I'm very patient in that department..so if you have to toss out eggs just do it without feeling it cause if you do you won't do it..you either get control or control them..good luck...
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Ralph
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rtwilliams
315 posts
Jan 07, 2009
9:41 PM
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Newbie
Sounds like you are off to a good start.
I do not know from experience but others here can will hopefully help you out. I just started in March of 08.
The biggest problem that I see you having is not flying the current young. A lot of people I have talked to say they need to at least be flown so they learn to kit. If you have to wait till March, you may have kitting problems with this round. I would break up your pairs for that reason.
Another option is build a kit box. A double box would work great next to your loft. You could use it to seperate your breeders when you were not breeding, as well as a place to put young birds seperate from holdover kit birds. My Cock birds are in a kit box now.
As far as breeding goes, as a newbie you gotta do what you gotta do. Most of my breeders are 07 late hatches, I breed them all in 08. I am mixing up the pairs this year, hoping for good young birds to use as breeders. Once I see what I want in the air, then they I will replace the current breeders for birds that I know.
good luck
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RT Williams
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2295 posts
Jan 07, 2009
9:55 PM
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RT says they need to at least be flown so they learn to kit. If you have to wait till March, you may have kitting problems with this round.
RT you said it right .and he says
he don't know from experience but I seen when RT
first came in here and he learn alot and I know one day RT you going to fly some good birds..I wish you the best RT..----------
Ralph
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macsrollers
2 posts
Jan 07, 2009
9:58 PM
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You need to either build another loft or divide your current one somehow. Dependent on how may pairs you intend to keep in stock, but sounds like you need to add on. You must have a way to split your hens from cocks or they will breed continually until the hen gets worn out, and/or you will start getting runty squabs and desease. Also your young hens will breed too soon and could become eggy and die or ruin their reproductive capabilities, thus becoming worthless as breeders. Doesn't sound like you are breeding too many birds, just sounds like your current set up doesn't allow you any control of your breeding program. 40 young birds may seem like alot but if you keep flying them during BOP season or not you will be down to 1/2 that within a year- unless you are extremely lucky. Also, stocking birds that just came into the spin is not the best practice. Alot can change as the birds mature and go thru their first moult. BOP doesn't allow some to fly out their birds that are spinning good that long and some can get away with stocking them early as they know their family, but you could be stocking some faults that you are unaware of by not flying them out. Some food for thought as you move forward. Remember, the key word in this hobby is patience. Fly the birds out, stock the best spinners-regardless of pedigree and name attached, and eventually you will end up with your own stud of rollers that adapted to the way you train and feed them, the conditions that you fly them in, and therefore are the right birds for you to breed out of an prepetuate. Best of success and hope this helps!
Don M. Mac's Rollers
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rtwilliams
317 posts
Jan 07, 2009
9:58 PM
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Thanks Ralph, without this site I would be lost.
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RT Williams
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wishiwon2
115 posts
Jan 09, 2009
2:43 PM
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Butch,
Sounds like you have a good plan initiated and I encourage you to stick to it. All the above advice is sound. You do need a way to be able to sperate your sexes, now or later. It would be to your benefit to fly the birds you're breeding from longer, I understand when starting out you do things more experienced fanciers dont have to. When you get a chance, fly them again.
What I most wanted to advise you about is this; Be careful making an evaluation of you stock birds based on a single round of young. In my opinion, you need at least 6 babies (3 rounds or more) to get a good idea of whether or not a stock pair is worthy of continue breeding, 8 or 10 young is better. It is extremely rare that you find a pair that produces 100% good rollers. More common a pair will produce a range of performance, all the way from non-performers to rolldowns and a variety inbetween. Along with that, a stock bird wont necessarily produce with any old mate. More often it takes a cpl of different matings to find the better mate for it, however, I do expect my stock to show me 'something' right away, I can then work through other matings to try and get them better or higher percentage of good ones.
Especially since you said many of the birds you're breeding from just now may be unrelated from the feed store. Expect more diversity from their offspring for that reason. I wish you well, glad to see you're at least flying them before raising babies, and that you want to fly the young and prove them out ... a sign of a good rollerman in the making ... Keep that attitude and you will go far, remember patience is the key young grasshopper.
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Jon
"had fun, wish i won 2"
If it were easy, everybody would do it ...
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Newbie 08
65 posts
Jan 09, 2009
3:53 PM
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you guys are the BOMB!!! I really appreciate all the knowledge and support from everyone here. In a couple of weeks I'm going to have a builder build me a nice double kit cage to hold maybe 20 birds in each. That way I can have better control. I will use the 5X5x5 loft that I have all my birds in now just for my breeders. I believe with 2 kits cages I can seperate my squeekers and weed out birds easier. I want to be really good at this as I am with most things I do. I will continue to follow all the advice here that can assist me in my goal. Hopefully this time next year I will have the wisdom as well as a few birds that fulfill my desire and will have enough knowledge to pass down to others in appreciation for that was given to me. I'm a true believer that the real gift is in giving. We only receive to give back. Thanks again guys!
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~~~~~~Butch
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2009 3:57 PM
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brudahpete
384 posts
Jan 09, 2009
5:48 PM
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It's all about the birds man! I hope you find success & satisfaction in the hobby.
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http://www.freewebs.com/brudahpete/
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Newbie 08
66 posts
Jan 09, 2009
7:29 PM
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I'm in california I have 2 3X3X3 wire aivery attached to my loft. I'm wondering will it be too cold to keep my cocks that are trying to produce more eggs in these aivery away from the hens that they have already mated too and produce eggs or squabs already.. I have 3 pairs that I think I want to keep paired up all 6 performed really good when i flew then for 3 months 6 days a week. But the other 5 pairs are kind of mix match either the hen is really good and the cock is ok or visa versa. I'd like to break these 5 pair up and regroupe after I fly them for 6 more months to determine if their even worth keeping. Reason I'm need to make a move pretty quick one pair that already have squabs in one nest that are 21 and 18 days old. I came in the loft today after i got off work and she's already sitting on a egg in a small nest i guess she just put together aand the cock is chasing her around i guess to produce the other. I'm impress with her performance but her mate is just ok thus far from what I've seen from the 3 months flying him. I'm thinking if I board up the top and both sides of one of my aivery I can keep 5 cocks in there until I have my kit boxes built in two weeks. don't want them to die though. What you guys think ?? I need to split up 5 pairs soon as the young are old enough to eat on their own or I'm going to have squabs, squeekers and eggs everywhere.
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~~~~~~Butch
Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2009 7:35 PM
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rtwilliams
318 posts
Jan 09, 2009
9:32 PM
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I think you could put them out there. they need protection form wind, sun, and rain/snow. If you can keep them out of a draft they should be fine, as long as they are not overcrowded. If sems at least a square foot per bird. from what I have gathered.
Not sure what your weather is like, My birds are in a kit box, and getsto 0 here often. they are fine. I have them hidden from the wind, behind my home.
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RT Williams
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Newbie 08
78 posts
Jan 11, 2009
1:41 PM
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Today I noticed I have 3 cocks with mates and squabs. 2 sets=4 babies are about 3 weeks old and one of the surviving squabs of 1 pair is 10 days old. These cocks are starting to try and get their grove on and produce more eggs with their mates. I want to see how well the first rounds babies they produced perform before I let them keep on pumping out eggs. So today I seperated these three cocks from the main loft to one of my 3X3X3 aivery connected to my loft to keep them away from their mates and slow down the hanky panky. My concern is that I have not yet boarded up aivery sides,top and bottom is wire. I'm in Ca and at times it can get in the low to mid 30's don't want to cause any harm to these cocks. Would they be ok for a few weeks until I have my double kit box built?? My second choice would be remove them in the morning before I go to work leave them in the aivery and place them back in the loft every night?? Also will the hens continue to feed the young without the cocks?? Worse case which i really don't want is to chuck eggs.
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~~~~~~butch
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rtwilliams
320 posts
Jan 12, 2009
7:45 AM
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Butch
The simplest fix if you are concerned about them is a simple tarp over the top and sides. That should give them enough protection for a few weeks. This would be an inexpensive fix.
Just an idea.
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RT Williams
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Newbie 08
88 posts
Jan 15, 2009
8:03 PM
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thanks RT
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~~~~~~butch
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Windjammer Loft
648 posts
Jan 16, 2009
9:42 AM
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It all depends on how old the birds are. If they are all 2008 birds. I wouldn't even consider breeding them. You don't know how good they really are until their second season. I wouldn't wast my time on breeding at this time. What's your hurry???
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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