pigeon pete
44 posts
Jan 16, 2009
8:24 AM
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LONGROLLER,
The B'roller was developed in the Black country of England from who knows what. Even the 'experts' on the subject have differing theories because tumbler flying was a working mans hobby and was not well documented.
One guy might have got hold of oriental roller blood, another Dutch tumblers, etc etc and all were crossing to get the performace they liked. Out of this morass emerged different types, and eventually different breeds. If you know what breeds were used then you are a pretty smart cookie. As for me well I'm just glad that the breeds were developed for my enjoyment, whatever their ancestery. And besides it was all well before my time,lol
Pete.
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Longroller
GOLD MEMBER
132 posts
Jan 16, 2009
8:43 AM
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Exactly my train of thought Pete.."B'roller developed in Black Country"..and our discussion's on this topic seem to believe they originated in the late 1930's. I am trying to open the discussion to include what was used in the "developing of the Black Country Roller". They did not just wake up one morning and decide to spin and call themselves Birmingham Roller of Black Country England. A simplistic read is Levi's book "The Pigeon" about some history of breeds. It is good to do a "family tree" approach to the rollers...you may be very suprised..as were the racing homer guys some years ago. Mr. Pensom did not design or originate but rather selectively imported then bred a group of birds from Black Country England to which we call B'rollers today. Not trying to muddy the waters...just to get a perspective. Bruce
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De Oppresso Liber
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ezeedad
921 posts
Jan 16, 2009
10:41 AM
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Longroller and Pigeon,
I have been interested in how the breed started..."the real thing"..and I suspect that it might be the result of only one breeder... Bill Richards. Of course a lot of breeders were around at the time, but from what I have read he seems to be the one that was the source.
Paul G
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Longroller
GOLD MEMBER
135 posts
Jan 16, 2009
1:32 PM
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Paul let's start a new thread..perhaps we can get a few more 'old farts' in on it. Bruce 'Origins of Birmingham Roller'
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De Oppresso Liber
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silent187
282 posts
Jan 16, 2009
1:32 PM
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TRUE
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Spin City USA
169 posts
Jan 16, 2009
7:19 PM
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Pigeon Pete, I guess I did not do a very good job of explaining myself. I know that baldheads,whitesides, WF,and all colors exist in good spinners. I am not disputing that,but I know people who are trying to breed perfect baldheads, I know people who wont breed them because they say all the white will attreat bops. I dont breed for any particular color,performance first. I did mention that I have a tort that is a good performer that I wont breed from. I have bred three out of this family and all three have kitting problems,they want to fly too high,they will take the kit up or go up by themselves, I have to starve them down to make them fly with the kit. I will replaced the last one as soon as I can. I have nothing against torts or grizzles,it is something I have noticed in three birds that I bred.
I read what you posted about keeping color in a particular family and I understand and aggree.
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They gotta Spin to win.....Jay
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Bill C
165 posts
Jan 16, 2009
8:06 PM
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Ballroller, Penson said that if you breed an oriental to a birmingham roller you would improve the oriental but would degrade the Birm. roller. He said the tail featers of the oriental are not condusive to velocity. Keep reading until you get to that part.
Ty, Pensom also said that if he saw a great roller in the sky he wanted the parrents who bred the bird and not the one in the sky.
The reason I mention this is because you have to read between the lines to understand he was illustrating that to breed good rollers is much easier with good breeders than to obtain one in the air and breed good birds. If it was just a matter of picking the best two we would all have a great kit. But not all the good ones can reproduce in a high percentage or make a click pair right off the bat.
This is why it is so important to know who the parrents are and by crossing birds with out some kind of performance in mind you degress instead of moving forward. You want to keep that blood line going and that is why we inbreed. If you out cross for any color with out knowing the performance or the parrents then you lose generations of hard work done before us.
So think about this, he wanted the parrents. Why? he could produce more of the same, with out the hard work that goes into finding a pair that clicks. At least I think there is still wisdon in these kind of statesments he made if you look for it. Bill C
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Mayo
67 posts
Jan 16, 2009
9:49 PM
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I'm not big on breeding for colors, But have ya ever heard the old saying...(If it looks like a Rose and smells like a Rose... It is a Rose..........
Also we need to think about every Domesticated Animal on this planet . All Domestic Animals were developed by crossing to get type, performance,color and or patterens , Everything from Dogs to Chickens, from Horse to Cats ......So wouldnt everything be a Mongel. "Think about it!" P.S> In the development of a New breed .....It takes 50 years of breeding it's like, before it can be consider a NEW BREED...TJMO
..................MaYo
Last Edited by on Jan 16, 2009 10:17 PM
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ezeedad
924 posts
Jan 17, 2009
11:07 AM
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Part of Pensom's statement that is being ignored, it seems to me, is that colorful birds are a part of the attraction of the breed, and that we should encourage the people who enjoy these colors to continue to do so.
He wasn't sying any thing about crosses...just the breed itself as it existed.
Paul G
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