George R.
1300 posts
Jan 15, 2009
5:52 PM
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If a person breeds 200 rollers and gets 20 good ones is all the work worth it ?
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Ty Coleman
502 posts
Jan 15, 2009
5:54 PM
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George if thats the best they can do then yes, but I sure would try to pinch some from someone else if it were me.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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quality
128 posts
Jan 15, 2009
6:02 PM
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If I raise 200 rollers & get 5 champions, I've done well.
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Yours in the Hobby
Don Lunau
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2325 posts
Jan 15, 2009
6:09 PM
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With good stock I expect to get 20 good ones out of 100.
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Ralph
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spinningdemon
191 posts
Jan 15, 2009
6:13 PM
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10% that is what I would like to say are stock quaility birds I tend to get 5-10% that I feel I would breed from. But for a kit of 20 you only need 20 but to get the best the more you breed the more from you to choose feed and care for. I prefer to breed less from better quaility stock birds and get the keeper precentage up. I know of guys that will breed a hundred birds and 70 would make good kit birds 15-20 would be stockers and the rest culls. I can live with those #s
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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birdman
683 posts
Jan 15, 2009
6:26 PM
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I woulsd expect about 50 'A' team quality birds and maybe 2 or 3 'stock quality'. If I had to breed 200 to get 20 then I would buy a kit from someone else with an impeccable record, fly them out, and select my stock from the best.
Russ
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Hifly11
43 posts
Jan 15, 2009
6:55 PM
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Yea Go spend the money and get 20 good birds then start from there. Unless you are a young man you won't have enough years to find 20 out of 200 young.
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George R.
1302 posts
Jan 15, 2009
6:57 PM
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I only bred about 65 birds last year , I gave a kit of 15 to a friend in Cali and flew the rest.
I got 40 Birds that were spinning 20feet or more and performed good.
I was just wondering what you Guys thought about percentages
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nicksiders
3210 posts
Jan 15, 2009
7:00 PM
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A top of the line breeder I know says it takes him 100 birds to get a kit of 20. Of course, he has had his basic family since 1986 so his family may be able to have a better percentage of good ones comparitively. It is also depends on what standards you desire to achieve as to how many you declare as "keepers". In some breeding seasons you may find the ratio of good ones higher than other seasons....it will probably vary from year to year
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Jan 15, 2009 7:04 PM
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birdman
685 posts
Jan 15, 2009
7:51 PM
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Wow George, 80% good birds. I guess you're not a novice anymore.
what is your Q x D standard for a good bird?
Russ
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TimP
142 posts
Jan 15, 2009
7:55 PM
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George, I think most breed 200 to get 20 because of the BOP.
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Scott
1435 posts
Jan 15, 2009
8:31 PM
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Tim, if you are breeding 200 because of the BOPs you are nothing but a diner
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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donnie james
182 posts
Jan 15, 2009
8:54 PM
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that don't sound to good %'s ..............donny james
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fhtfire
1768 posts
Jan 15, 2009
9:06 PM
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Last year I bred 100 birds total....25 of those 100 went to auction donations, given away or sold.
Out of 75 birds....I have I think close to 14 in the A team right now, Pulled 2 hens and 1 cock for stock, I have 21 in my B-team that is a pretty good team and could beat my A team on any given sunday....so What I have right now..that I feel are top quality pigeons is...38 pigeons and 3 Stock quality....and 37 of those birds I culled 6 for different reasons...broken wings etc...or just quit flying....I know of 2 roll downs... and a hawk chased off 9 to never return when they were young birds..and I know the hawks have chased off the rest....or standard losses...so out of 37....17 I know how they met there maker...and 20....I dont know what happened to them.......so....shit now I confused myself..LOL
rock and ROLL
Paul
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pigeon pete
42 posts
Jan 16, 2009
2:31 AM
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You can get 2 or 200 good ones, it depends how high or low your standards are. Also There are too many variables to make a definative statement. If you lose a lot to BOP or fly-aways then you may never know how many were good rollers. If you continually improve your stock, and are lucky enough to hold onto most of them, the percentages of keepers for most flyers may stay the same.
Let me explain.
In the first few seasons you build the numbers up, and each year you will need a certain number to work with for your kits, and a certain number to stock.
This tends to settle into a pattern, one year may be better than others but on average I bred around 30-35 birds each year and 3 or 4 were good enough for stock.
One year, 1998 I think, I kept a lot more for stock and also for the A team than on an average year, in fact I put 7 birds from one pair into the A team.
10 years down the line I was still only breeding 3 or 4 good enough for stock but my standards had been raised and those 3 or 4 were better rollers than the 3 or 4 I stocked 10 years previously. If you start out with Higher quality stock than I was able to get then your pattern may go the opposite way,lol
Pete.
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belle
315 posts
Jan 16, 2009
8:16 AM
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I would say I get 15%, it would be more if bop would not get the best birds, they never seem to get the not so good rollers.
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Justin
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Windjammer Loft
646 posts
Jan 16, 2009
9:16 AM
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To answer the original question......I would say "NO"
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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speedball
85 posts
Jan 16, 2009
9:29 AM
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mate thats strong. 200 for 20? and what were the 20 realy like?
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Flipmode
341 posts
Jan 16, 2009
4:39 PM
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Like someone said. Some people breed 200+ because of the BOP's. Others breed 200+ to get a kit of 20 because thats all the juice they got. I understand the BOP situation, but to breed 200 birds and only get 20 birds that will hit the scoreboard together is crazy!
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roller heaven
54 posts
Jan 16, 2009
6:16 PM
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I raise 75 babys and by the fall I end up with 25 due to the bop.
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tomas'commerce,ca.
93 posts
Jan 16, 2009
10:42 PM
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i breed 30 last year and have about 12 birds left from bop attacks,i cant fly my birds at all, every time i let them out here comes a hawk, i know lock-down right,well i did and do lock my birds down for weeks now and i'm still getting hit,almost every time i let them out,thankfully i still have the deep rollers from last year which is only 6 and i wont them out at all, they are now my stock birds.these birds still have lots of fly time left in them but i just can't afford to risk them in the air and that suck, these are the ones i enjoy the most out of my kit.well no more to the stock loft for now.i have about 18 late 08 birds that i will let out from time to time just to keep them in shape and to see if they are turning out to be good rollers.if not they keep flying at least once a week.
Tomas
5/710
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gabe454
1472 posts
Jan 16, 2009
11:08 PM
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If it takes that george i will.
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GABE 454
TRIPLE "G" LOFT
L.P.R.C
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silent187
288 posts
Jan 17, 2009
10:53 AM
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man thats why u guys get so many bop's its like saying here pick which plate of food u want..... and he has 200 choices... u should keep it short... so that bop's wont notice all the free food in the air..
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George R.
1305 posts
Jan 17, 2009
11:13 AM
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i am more inclined to think that a Person would breed 200 birds a year due to a stabilty issue or stiffnesss issue.
either way someting is WRONG with having to breed 200 a year to get a decent kit.
and it aint the BOP . I can guarantee that
the Novice
george
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kopetsa
6 posts
Jan 17, 2009
1:27 PM
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That would be a horrible percentage for me. I expect they all do well.. But I would never raise 200 a year.. lol Because I only breed like 5 pairs.. lol Now all the Neibels hopefully they will do well.. But sometimes I get rolldowns out of the other birds and it peeves me off so I use them as fosters. :)
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quality
140 posts
Jan 17, 2009
1:57 PM
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If you are not getting rolldowns once in a while you are doing something wrong.
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Yours in the Hobby
Don Lunau
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KATCHER
11 posts
Jan 17, 2009
9:20 PM
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too many for me!!!
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CSRA
1740 posts
Jan 18, 2009
7:54 AM
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200 hundred a year is common in the Los Angeles area Bop baby and u know this man lol
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Scott
1455 posts
Jan 18, 2009
11:16 AM
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(man thats why u guys get so many bop's its like saying here pick which plate of food u want..... and he has 200 choices... u should keep it short... so that bop's wont notice all the free food in the air..)
Bingo !!!
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Scott
1456 posts
Jan 18, 2009
11:20 AM
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( but to breed 200 birds and only get 20 birds that will hit the scoreboard together is crazy! )
I would say that it would take me breeding 200 in order to 20 of the type that I'm looking for.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Flipmode
342 posts
Jan 18, 2009
12:29 PM
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Scott, You mean to tell me that you breed 200 birds a year and only get 20 that are quality rollers????
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Scott
1459 posts
Jan 18, 2009
12:32 PM
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No I don't breed 200 birds a year, but yes realisticly I get probably 10 0/0 of the type of birds that I'm looking for for my A team. I wish that I could claim more but I just can't without B.S.ing everyone or lowering the standard of what I consider worthy of mention.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 18, 2009 12:50 PM
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wishiwon2
123 posts
Jan 18, 2009
7:46 PM
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It has alot to do with your standard of worthiness.
Pete pointed out earlier that what turned him on ten years ago doesnt now. I would say the same thing for myself. When I began, if it rolled at all I was stoked. I think my standard has raised some, or I expect more of my birds to be keepers. I keep about the same amount now as I did 8-9 years ago, the ones Im keeping now are far superior to those kept in the past.
By my standards of worthiness, I get 3 or 4 stock worthy birds per year and can field a competative team yearly from 100 babies raised. Not world cup contenders mind you, but competative. I dont suffer losses to BOP. I lose the occasional one to sickness, the rest are kept purely by my selection.
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Jon
"had fun, wish i won 2"
If it were easy, everybody would do it ...
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Ballrollers
1647 posts
Jan 18, 2009
8:52 PM
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I think Scott made a good point. The higher your standards are, the more birds you have to breed. The more you raise that bar, the more difficult it is to breed birds that meet those expectations. It also depends on the length of time you have been breeding and flying competitively, and the quality of the birds that you started out with.
Personally, I could "get by" breeding 75 birds, but I wouldn't be competitive in this region. I'm not interested in just "getting by". I raise nearly 200 birds a year. That way I have three kits to choose birds from for the competition teams, two or three more kits that are still coming into spin at any given time, and two or three kits to donate to auctions and new flyers. And I don't cry when I lose the occaisional bird to BOP. So far this philosophy seems to be working failry well for me. Sure, I'd like to have a dozen pair cranking out 80% top quality spinners....but I just don't see that much around the country.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jan 18, 2009 8:56 PM
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Scott
1469 posts
Jan 19, 2009
2:21 PM
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Actually Cliff, you missed my point, I limit myself to three kits of youngsters and no more than 9 pair to stay focused on my best.
Also this allows me to train hard even with weather and short days and not let good ones slip through the cracks,it also limits me as a food sourse for the BOPs by not having tons of birds in the air every day.
It is strictly about quality over quantity !
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 19, 2009 3:20 PM
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Ballrollers
1649 posts
Jan 19, 2009
4:53 PM
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Slip through the cracks? No worries about that here, my friend. I have more issues with the shorter days in winter than anything else. Fortunately every other weekend is four days off for me so they get plenty of work. I don't lose half a dozen birds a year to BOP, so that's not much of an issue. I too prefer quality, and a large quantity of it!! LOL! I am very pleased with how this particular philosophy is working for me up to this point. I suspect that it may change as I continue with my program....
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jan 19, 2009 4:53 PM
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