spinningdemon
203 posts
Jan 20, 2009
6:56 AM
|
I am not meaning to start a battle its just a question from someone new to the comp roller scene.
is the 11 bird fly to show more of quailty of the birds as far as what we breed champions for or is the 20 bird fly?
What would the mentor Bill Pensom say is the best competion to show quailty?
Some say Mr. Pensom would say any thing to pit bird against bird is the better competition.
Some say piting kit against kit was what got Mr. Pensom out of the comp game?
Again its just a question.
----------
David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
|
bman
631 posts
Jan 20, 2009
7:04 AM
|
David, you might want to fasten your seat belt.LOL
----------
Ron
Borderline lofts
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
211 posts
Jan 20, 2009
7:08 AM
|
Yep snug it down tight, and hang on for the ride!!
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
Scott
1474 posts
Jan 20, 2009
7:15 AM
|
Dave,the bulk of the flyers in the 11 bird finals are 20 bird flyers,it is another avenue to fly thier best again as you can't fly the same birds in a 2nd 20 bird kit.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
Flipmode
343 posts
Jan 20, 2009
8:01 AM
|
I think the 11-bird fly spotlights the best quality(style,speed,depth) individual birds. The birds are more under the magnifying glass then in the 20 bird fly. They gotta show their stuff. Just compare the fly rules to each other.
|
az-je
38 posts
Jan 20, 2009
8:37 AM
|
I agree with Flipmode, the 11 bird fly will showcase the individual rollers and the 20 bird fly is more of a group/kit effort.
Janet
|
spinningdemon
204 posts
Jan 20, 2009
9:48 AM
|
Thanks for the comments.
----------
David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
|
Ballrollers
1658 posts
Jan 20, 2009
1:35 PM
|
I for one, will never believe that the human eye is capable of distinguishing the true quality, speed and depth of a spinning pigeon at 300 feet when there are 10-15 birds breaking simultaneously. When three to eight birds are doing so, we, as humans, are much more capable of a more accurate assessement. For that reason alone, our region tends to insist on maintaining the 11-bird competitions. In fact some of our local competitions have only five birds...for the same reason; quality assessement. Poor quality gets masked in the flurry of action in a huge 20-bird kit break. You hear guys crying about it all the time...judges score everything that flutters in these kits sometimes, because they just can't discern the difference. It is absurd to believe that the two are equal in the assessement of quality.
JMHO,
Cliff
|
spinningdemon
213 posts
Jan 20, 2009
1:49 PM
|
Cliff,
Thank you for your comments and good points. Could you tell me more about the 5 bird comps?
I was talking with a gentelman in Germany and they fly thier rollers out of a small portable box that holds 3 birds the birds are trained to thier own box as each lid has a differnt color. All of the competetors go to a park where thier is a large lawn area and little trees. They take turns flying thier birds and the birds are judged as an indavidual with only quaility being judged.
----------
David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
|
Scott
1484 posts
Jan 20, 2009
1:52 PM
|
Only gets masked when some don't know what they are looking at Cliff, these judges aren't scoreing the 11 bird any different than the 20 bird.
I wish "nothing" would be scored that doesn't roll with quality regardless of which fly it is,11 birds or 15-20,it makes no difference if its a quality team
( Poor quality gets masked in the flurry of action in a huge 20-bird kit break.)
The above sounds like a break that should have never been scored to begin with, good solid quality breaks are easy to score.
(It is absurd to believe that the two are equal in the assessement of quality.)
Maybe in your world
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 20, 2009 2:15 PM
|
wishiwon2
124 posts
Jan 20, 2009
3:26 PM
|
Interestingly enough, the bulk of the 11-bird scoring is earned by depth, not quality. mThere is a bonus pt available for superior speed and one for depth too. While the scoring in a 20-bird fly is earned by primarily by teamwork and equal measures of depth and quality are assesed. Just based on the scoring system the 20-bird fly has more influence on the score based upon quality. The 11-bird is more of a way to reward an individual bird, or to make an evaluation of an individual, but the way the scoring works it is difficult to reward, with points, a top quality bird.
As Cliff pointed out it can be difficult to accurately score birds in an 11-bird fly when they break together, because its difficult to make that many simutaneously individual evaluations. If a judge does his job well the 20-bird competition actually is better way to reward quality, not as an individual but a team of quality birds.
Jon
"had fun, wish i won 2"
If it were easy, everybody would do it ...
|
Square
642 posts
Jan 20, 2009
3:54 PM
|
For me its like this I will be flying hopefully 3kits of 20.. I have never flew the 11bird.. however when I started this new loft it was intended to show of my best 11. the reason I like this fly is because your loft has a oppurtunity to showcase the best 11. I just plan on putting the best 11 togeather this year...so if you raise alot of rollers let's say 100+ in a year and they are good stock, showcasing 11birds could be withen reach thats just how im thinkin...Good luck to all this year..
Square..
----------
"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
|