rollem
17 posts
Jan 22, 2009
3:19 PM
|
I reacently purchased 3 pair of portagaze tumblers at a show I love the way they look I have been flying them with my rollers just to see what they will do and so far they dont do any thing but fly real fast but no tumble has any body ever fooled with any I know i mispelled port. the guy i got them from said he did not fly but had heard that they can out fly a bop ,maybe their fasttttt but no performance so far p.s. i know this is a roller site but maybe some one can help thanks
One of the few Virginia ROLLER BOYS
|
rollem
18 posts
Jan 22, 2009
5:19 PM
|
just to watch them just like i do my rollers pure enjoyment
----------
One of the few Virginia ROLLER BOYS
|
rollem
22 posts
Jan 22, 2009
5:29 PM
|
Do they look like the ports.
----------
One of the few Virginia ROLLER BOYS
|
true spin
65 posts
Jan 22, 2009
10:55 PM
|
hi rollem the portugese tumblers are basically a nice bird to look at but they dont tumble more than once or twice if your lucky so if you like there looks just keep um but dont expect anytihng to come of them as far as performance (expensive little suckers eh)
thanks rick
true spin
Country Creek Lofts
Ontario Canada
|
BA Rollers
164 posts
Jan 22, 2009
10:55 PM
|
I have PTs. But I haven't flown any of the young ones yet. Joe Kiser has them and I'm told some of them flip. An acqaintence in south africa has them and says his tumble and are good at evading the BOP they have there. PTs have only been in this country about seven years.
|
pigeon pete
69 posts
Jan 23, 2009
5:24 AM
|
When I started out with pigeons I fancied getting something that would tumble or roll, and I bought some 'tumblers' that never tumbled. I found out later that there are a lot of the continenlal show birds that are classed as 'Tumblers' and the word tumbler is part of their name but they are not a flying performance breed, just show birds. It is misleading, but that is how cetain of the the exhibition birds are classified.
If they don't fit into the flying or pouter or toy class etc etc they get classed as tumblers.
Maybe tumbler breeds were used in their creation, I don't know, but I would say it is a case of do your research, and buyer beware.Pete.
|
spinningdemon
216 posts
Jan 23, 2009
11:59 AM
|
My experience with the PT is that they are a show breed with none of the tumble left in them they were origanily a performance breed but the show side got them and they lost the ability. Like so many others of the tumbler family.
----------
David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
|
rollem
24 posts
Jan 23, 2009
2:55 PM
|
Thanks for all the input guys i think ill keep them and let them hang with my rollers cause they sure can fly fast maybe the'll get some of my lazy over weight rollers off their butts and stay up in the air longer and besides i would like to see them out fly a bop////
----------
One of the few Virginia ROLLER BOYS
|
Bill C
182 posts
Jan 23, 2009
3:07 PM
|
BA Rollers, I saw those birds at Joe Kisers house the last time I visited him. He asked me to tell him if I saw one roll!LOL He would like to get them to roll or tumble, what ever they do. He will no doubt breed from the ones that tumble and get the roll back into them before he dies if possible.
This is exactly why guys are against breeding for unusual colors in the birmingham roller.
Joe Kiser will probalby go to our roller show on Feb 28th in Lodi since he lives close to there. I will ask him if he has seen any roll yet and let you know im March. Bill
|
BA Rollers
165 posts
Jan 23, 2009
4:44 PM
|
Well technically they are not supposed to roll...lol...they are tumblers. JV is the one that told me Joe said he had some tumbling. I haven't seen it for myself.
|
spinningdemon
219 posts
Jan 23, 2009
6:34 PM
|
Bill C.
The breeding of colors in rollers is different then breeding for the show room. Show type is way different then color. The big problem that happened with the tumbler and roller pigeons is that some person or group of people decided on a standard for their group of performing pigeons. When the standard was created people started breeding for that standard to win trophies and ribbons with no care for the way the bird performed and the "ro" gene was breed out of them and the breeds lost their original purpose. Becoming rollers or tumblers only by name. People that breed only for color and do not fly their birds or have others test their mattings could possibly breed out the "ro" gene as well. Breeding for anything other then performance has the possibilities of losing or lessing the effects of the "ro" gene. Anything such as pedigree just for pedigree, feathered feet, big heads, little heads, and the list goes on end on. In breeding performance pigeons performance should be first all others secondary. Including type, colors, pedigree etc, etc,etc,
----------
David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
|
Bill C
184 posts
Jan 23, 2009
7:55 PM
|
BA Rollers, I should not have used the word roll at all and just use tumble. You are correct!
Spinnerdom, You said, "The breeding of colors in rollers is different then breeding for the show room." Yes it is different but with the same results is what my point was. In show you want those big heads with produding forhead and large body. While colored birds are not for big forheads just what ever it takes to get to that Qualmond, indigo or what ever it is that excites you. Anyway guys you pay the feed bill so, law against that. We just need to keep in mind what they do so anyone new knows what they are getting into with color or show or performance based birds.
You did mention to breed for anything other than performance lessons or loses the roll. Good Point,Bill C
Last Edited by on Jan 23, 2009 7:58 PM
|
spinningdemon
220 posts
Jan 24, 2009
1:58 AM
|
As long as a performance breed is bred to be a performer first then all other things secondary the ability to roll or perform will not be lost. I raise flying west of england tumblers, they have only been a strong show breed since the late 60's early 70's till now. But it was like pulling teeth to find any one that raised performing west of england tumblers, in just under 50 years they have become tumblers only by name.
----------
David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
|
BA Rollers
166 posts
Jan 24, 2009
9:58 AM
|
David, your opinion about the Wests is an opinion and not accurate. I give my mismarked culls to a friend who flys them, and with training they fly for hours pinned out and most tumble on the way up and on the way down, just like they used to do 100 years ago. That tumbler by name only stuff when applying it to wests is wrong. You went looking for "flying Wests" when few people actually have Wests that were only flown. But because they weren't flown out and bred for show doesn't mean they cannot do what you expect them do to. I've had champion birds produce birds that weren't marked correct for me and were then flown out and would do the same thing their ancestors did 50 years ago.
|
spinningdemon
226 posts
Jan 24, 2009
12:29 PM
|
BA Rollers,
I tried many lets say about 60 show culls and they had trouble flying let alone for hours or any tumbles. In the 60 I tried 3 differnt families same story. I talked to many people on the west site as well as folks on that eggbid thing etc. I found people that let people fly there culls not only me but other folks interested in preserving the flying aspect of the west. I know I talked to dozen of folks that tried it, no luck. I went through the same thing when I started with oriental rollers in the early 90's fly the culls they will roll, Not! In breeding for show with out the fly aspect the performance fails or lessons. Breed for performance first and the performance increases. Performance first, type second everything else third.
So I would love to fly some of these birds you are talking about that would be awesome. I would love you to prove me wrong that would make my day.
I am not saying you are wrong I am just saying been there done that. But with what you are telling me I would love to try it again. I would love to talk to your friend that is flying them as well I am forming a preservation society and would love to include you and your friend.
----------
David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
|
Windjammer Loft
678 posts
Jan 25, 2009
7:37 AM
|
rollem...to sum this whole thread up.
#1.don't buy show birds, most of them don't fly.
#2.don't buy birds that haven't been flown.
#3.don't fly different strains of birds together.
You won't get the best preformance out of either
strain.
#4.don't believe what alot show guys say, who tell you
that "Oh ya these birds will fly"......LOL
Good luck,
----------
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2009 7:57 AM
|
BA Rollers
168 posts
Jan 25, 2009
10:23 AM
|
Paul, are you calling me a liar? I'm yer huckleberry MFer!
|
Windjammer Loft
684 posts
Jan 27, 2009
7:54 AM
|
BA Roller.....by "no" means was I reffering my statement about you....please understand that. I was addressing rollem's post and to whom "he" dealt with.
----------
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
|