PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2395 posts
Jan 27, 2009
8:55 PM
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----------I have a question for you and anybody that wants to answer ,, would you breed from a roller that never roll but kit good and come from good stock and the siblings are doing what they suppose to be doing with quality but that bird never roll .whats your take on that..I read somewhere I think it was Graham D. or George M...that says these birds have a hidden secret that you just might miss if you don't take a chance on them.. ?
Ralph
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mario
GOLD MEMBER
342 posts
Jan 27, 2009
9:00 PM
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I dont think i would ....I breed my best with my best ....Mario
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Scott
1588 posts
Jan 27, 2009
9:08 PM
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Ralph, you will get lots of opinion on this, but my answer is no , if that were the case I could make money off my culls , and come to think of it those that tout this normal sell lots of pigeons and or breed hot pigeons.
My birds run much more on the control side as I can't stand hot unstable pigeons, so obviously stiffs have no place in my breeding program, hope this helps.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2009 9:09 PM
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2397 posts
Jan 27, 2009
9:12 PM
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You and me both I can't stand hot pigeons neither ...thx for your input it help.......
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Ralph
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wishiwon2
130 posts
Jan 27, 2009
9:13 PM
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It depends on what you are trying to add. If the sibs are doing everything they're supposed to it seems more reasonable to use them instead. I wouldnt do it unless I had to because of lack of anything else stockworthy. Or if I was trying to breed control into an unstable line. Neither will probably happen at my house, so I doubt I ever would do breed it.
I have seen 2 instances where a straight flier was bred from with good outcome. The offspring rolled with good quality and frequency. The circumstances were just as you described, good strain, good quality siblings. The reason these 2 were used is because they were the only ones from these matings that could be had. It remains to be seen if the F2 and subsequent generations can continue to reproduce well or not.
I think, and I cant justify why, that for this to work sucessfully it must be as you identified above and be an absolutely nonperformer, not really seldom or a flipper/short depth worker. I also thnk it depends alot upon the mate its paired with.
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Jon
"had fun, wish i won 2"
If it were easy, everybody would do it ...
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2009 9:16 PM
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George R.
1317 posts
Jan 27, 2009
9:17 PM
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That Bird is a Cull at my loft.
I dont make excuses for Birds , either they got the goods or they dont.
I would put the Bird under a Pie Crust.
George
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Scott
1591 posts
Jan 27, 2009
9:22 PM
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(It remains to be seen if the F2 and subsequent generations can continue to reproduce well or not.)
Oh you mean we should look ahead Jon ? now there is genetics thats worth talking about LOL
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2009 9:23 PM
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2398 posts
Jan 27, 2009
9:29 PM
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If the sibs are doing everything they're supposed to it seems more reasonable to use them instead.
Exactly Jon ,good point ..I have two male's and three females so I was going to pair up the one I describe above because of what I have left at my disposal.but what I decided to do was use the cock that has the goods and mate him to all the hens and mate the cock that never roll with one of the hens too but toss the eggs and let them foster from the good pair.. in other words he has no place in here but to foster..
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Ralph
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Bill C
193 posts
Jan 27, 2009
10:02 PM
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Ralph you mention the bird never rolled. How long did you fly it? I have birds that flip at one year old and some roll very short in the first year. I call them flipers but if they flip fast, so fast you mignt not even see them unless you are watching them down low. I keep flying them, because they can turn out to be some of the best rollers if flown long enough. I know most want early dev. birds because of BOP but I dont care at all. I actully like them comming into the roll at 9 months or a year old. Really!
If you raise a round in May they will be ready to fly in June and that only gives us Calif. guys 5 months to fly them late birds. It would not come into the roll until the middle of the next year to be fair to the bird. So for that reason I keep all straight flyers for three years. Most of the A team I fly is 2 and 3 year old birds and growing.
Last Edited by on Jan 27, 2009 10:03 PM
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0221
16 posts
Jan 28, 2009
5:49 AM
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I've listen to alot of talk about breeding from pigeon's that don't roll that are from a good family. Your going to get good and bad roller's from every mating. Maybe this one is a late developer. So why start breeding late developer's into Your birds. pick the kitting,the age You want them to come in,the depth, the speed, frequency and qualtiy and only breed from those. You only get the best from breeding off the best. there will always be someone to argue this point, but I call that trial and mostly error.
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0221
17 posts
Jan 28, 2009
6:25 AM
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PR rollers,
I would like to say this, there is lots of good advise, I think most people try to share there experience with other fancier's by trying to get them not to waste there time. It sometime's take years to to prove out a breeding. But by all means a person sure has the right to try it for themselfs to see the out come. You can make Your own mistake's or learn from other people's. first hand exprience just take's longer.
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2399 posts
Jan 28, 2009
8:04 AM
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Bill this bird has been flying for 13 month straight.. at a year old it did one fast flip like you mention then not one again..but like you I do keep flying them in another team because it kits well and has good temperament birds around here that has bad temperament and don't roll don't last ..I give its time since I do have patience.but if its a late developer I wouldn't use it neither.
0221 that post number 16 and 17 are great post..
----------I always learn from my own mistakes but this time I'm learning from others I'm running out of time it takes many years to developed a good family and I have to jump on this wagon now.
I was joking with my wife the other day I said it going to take me about 5 to 7 years to get a good family going another ten to keep it going strong and if something happens like they all die or what ever I have to start all over so I'm 50 now plus 7 yrs I be 57 plus 10 more 67 you might have to stick around incase you have to wheel my behind to the coop.she start laughing ...
Ralph
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0221
18 posts
Jan 28, 2009
11:40 AM
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PR rollers,
I'm 58 so I know what Your saying.
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