Guest
Guest
Jan 12, 2004
8:27 PM
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To whom it may concern; I want to ask a question, well I bought a pair of breeders and ten of it's young.
I haven't flown the breeding pair so I don't know how they perform.(paid alot for them so I don't want to lose them)but I have flown their young and they roll about 10-25ft.
So I know that the pair I have produce good rollers. But how would I pair there young back to the parents.
The best hen back to cock? Or best cock back to hen? Or best bother and sister? All your info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Last Edited by Guest on Jan 12, 2004 8:28 PM
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rollerpigeon
8 posts
Jan 12, 2004
8:32 PM
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Thanks for the question. You will find this question answered in more detail in the Step 2 section of our publication “How To Breed Better Rollers”.
You indicate that you’ve acquired a breeding pair that has “proven” themselves thru the offspring, which is Step 7.
You have also been able to “fly out” the offspring and see for yourself what this pair is capable of and which are your best ones.
Personally I like that they have the roll. I often hear from those who have rollers that “roll” but once or twice at a time!
Assuming that they roll with velocity, 10’-25’ is nice depth. These are requirements number 1, 2 and 3 of the Primary Traits.
To answer your question: On page 20 of “How To Breed Better Rollers”, I quote Bill Pensom and one of the things he says in “The Birmingham Roller Pigeon” about breeding is:
“the most successful strains, in many breeds of pigeons, were evolved from just one or two birds; and they were invariably cocks which dominated the order of things”.
So with this in mind, I would do it the following way:
1. From this first generation, select the best
daughter that has both maintained and improved
upon the Primary Trait’s and breed back to its
father.
2. From this new second generation pairing, select the
best daughter that has both maintained and improved
upon the PT’s even more and breed this
granddaughter back to the original cock, which is
its grandfather.
3. Repeat this process until you have reached all your
PT goals.
Once you have a line-bred pair that “clicks” i.e. they are able to produce a larger percentage of offspring than say an average pair demonstrating all the PT’s, you are ready to apply the 80/20 rule:
use this pair to breed as many offspring as you can and fly a full kit out of them as soon as possible.
Your next objective is to maintain the level of quality and/or improve upon it.
So you will want to continue to breed “best to best” for the most exciting results! You are ready to repeat Step 2.
I hope this info helps!
FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by rollerpigeon on Jan 12, 2004 8:35 PM
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nicksiders
1 post
Jan 12, 2004
8:56 PM
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My experience tells me that breeding brother to sister does not work well. Daughter to father seems to work best. I have had some success with son to mother, but daughter to father seems to work much better.
Half brother to half sister has worked exceptionally well as long as the origanal cock bird being the common denominator. Always bread the best to the best, but if you can spread the genetic out the better. The closest genetics is brother/sister and this will always have the most sparse results.
Last Edited by nicksiders on Jan 12, 2004 8:59 PM
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rollerpigeon
21 posts
Jan 22, 2004
11:09 PM
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Hey Nick
I have to agree with the father/daughter pairings working best.
When I tried brother/sister I was not impressed with my results either.
I like taking the father and putting it to daughter then granddaughter and so on. I like the overall temperment my birds have and the homogenized appearance.
I read an article on Rick Mees website and he says a strong family resemblance is important for a "concert performance": rolling together.
The best kits I have seen, are always birds of the same family. They have the same gene pool and as they have the same look and temperment, they tend to have the same reaction to any roll stimuli. Therefore, what might make 1 bird roll would make all 20 of them roll.
Tony Chavarria
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STARFIRE
3 posts
Jan 30, 2004
5:54 PM
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Breeding bro /sister is not as bad as you may think.It depends on your family.I breed bro/sis then breed the young bro/sis,then take the young from them and breed them back to the original pair.Then breed bro/sis/ again.Its very hard to find a pair that can withstand this kind of inbreeding but it can be done and the young are still very good spinners.1/2bro/ sis is a very good mating and gives a good number of good youngsters.The only way to see if your family has the stuff to inbreed so close is to do it.If the young are no good cull them and do something different
Last Edited by STARFIRE on Jan 30, 2004 5:55 PM
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Reply to STARFIRE
Guest
Feb 01, 2004
12:31 PM
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From your last post, it sound as if you have some very special pigeons that can withstand the inbreeding you mention. What kind of a price does a pair of such superior breeders command?
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royal hammond
Guest
Feb 02, 2004
11:04 PM
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those are good birds
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Freddie
1 post
Feb 03, 2004
6:18 PM
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If you toss the mother out of the breeding plan, you don't know what you may get. The hen may be responsible for your roll. The best plan is to take the best daughter to the father, the best son to the mother. After that you take the best of the remaining and make what ever pairs you want. You don't know that bro/sis mating is good or bad if you haven't tried it. You are lucky if you are getting good birds from the one pair. It will be easy to start a family from what you have. After the first year you need to fly hard and cull harder. only keep the very best. In two to three years you should have a very good kit of birds.
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MILO
833 posts
Nov 10, 2007
2:02 PM
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Since we are digging up the oldies...LOL Here's a good one.
c
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Missouri-Flyer
910 posts
Nov 10, 2007
2:16 PM
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Read this a few weeks back, with raised eyebrows!
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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nicksiders
2441 posts
Nov 10, 2007
5:10 PM
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My first post....I am not any smarter. Wouldn't it be weird if this was my last?
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BigRiverRollerLofts
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Skylineloft
337 posts
Nov 10, 2007
5:36 PM
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Thats funny Nick,
I guess it depends on the birds, right ?
I have bred full brother sister matings in the past and just hated the results.
This is something I would do to try to reproduce a bird, (you hope LOL)
This year a friend loaned me some birds to breed out of. Two of the birds where from the same parents. They where both 3/4 birds. Already jammed up. I put them together and bred my best bird out of that pair. (I bred over 100 birds this year). As a matter of fact, I bred 4 birds from that pair, 3 came in and they where all great spinners. I put two in the stock pen (Cock & Hen) and I will breed out of them next year. Its great when it works, but thats not always the case...lol
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
1846 posts
Nov 10, 2007
6:08 PM
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Hey Nick, here's to hoping it's not! ;-)
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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