Mayo
99 posts
Feb 01, 2009
8:08 PM
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Ok. Now We have argued over color and what is the (true )Birmingham Roller,Lets talk about Legs! Would someone try an explain why some Roller Families have Muffs, Grouse, And Clean Legs. The claim is the Orenital roller, that has clean legs and the Old Dutch Tumblers and West of england Tumblers have grouse and muffed legs...Why do different Families do carry and do not carry these traits, with some families carring both .................just a question to ask.....Mayo.................and sunflower this is not a BS Subject.....if you dont have the info ....DONT respond
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TT
GOLD MEMBER
353 posts
Feb 01, 2009
8:12 PM
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Im making some popcorn for this show :) LOL
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Tony...
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
245 posts
Feb 01, 2009
8:27 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Drum Roll please...
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Mayo
100 posts
Feb 01, 2009
8:42 PM
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I guess the Rollers with clean legs are pure Birminghams? And I guess the grouse and muffed are Not pure? My jaconettes are both..MaYo..Come on lets get the Fire started......LOL
Last Edited by on Feb 01, 2009 8:44 PM
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KATCHER
33 posts
Feb 01, 2009
8:52 PM
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i have jacs too!! and i belive they are to be as pure as they come!! so mayonaise what are you saying???? that jacs are not the real deal???
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Mayo
101 posts
Feb 01, 2009
9:09 PM
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Katcher, No ,Im not saying that the Jaconettes are not Pure I guess what im tryng to do is get responce from guys that say muffed and grouse legged roller are not pure........Hell! The Jaconettes are My baby...LOL...MaYo
Last Edited by on Feb 01, 2009 9:11 PM
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Mayo
102 posts
Feb 01, 2009
9:12 PM
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Got to Love the Jacs.........
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0221
28 posts
Feb 01, 2009
9:16 PM
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Pensom said some were muffed, that takes us back to the thirtys. So I quess some did and some didnt. I think its up to You. Do what You like. One thing for sure is it can't help performance, so I would not breed for it. thats My feeling. But if it pops up so what. It does not mean You birds are not pure. Instead of worrying about feather feet, I'd rather work on getting 20 rollers to stand and break together.
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roller alley
90 posts
Feb 01, 2009
9:23 PM
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I dont think there is a pure anything anymore.The BR was derived by diff. breeds. This debate has been going on for so long,just like you MAYO I am tired of it,but you are trying to end the debate once in for all.
The birds I am working with for now are mostly clean legged,with the exception of 2 grouse legged.I am not working on either except on the roll and quality.Every one has chosen a bird type that catches thier fancy and select birds with the trait and enhance it where it becomes a common occurance in their breeding program.
When I raised in the 80's I was doing the color thing and I never got anywhere.I was young and had pretty birds,with no controll.With the 15 year lay over I am going the oposite direction with out caring to much on apearance.In turn I have mostly wild type color birds,Which appear much less mongralized but I do know better.No one will ever admit to having a mixed anithing it is not in our nature to admit to fault.I am also not to familiar with each family so besides this rant I have just made wouldnt be able to offer much more of a debate on the subject.
Thnx L.J
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0221
30 posts
Feb 01, 2009
9:36 PM
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roller alley, I think Your on the right track. we need to fly them, and select them out of the air.If they roll correctly, they are built correctly.You can stand in You loft and hold them look in there eyes and anything else you want to do, but if your breeding for performance, You better start flying and they will show You the goods if its in them.
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Mayo
103 posts
Feb 01, 2009
9:37 PM
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Thanks, for your input 0221 and roller alley....Mayo
Last Edited by on Feb 01, 2009 10:23 PM
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Scott
1629 posts
Feb 02, 2009
5:41 AM
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Grouse legs and muffs have allways been part of the breed,it can't be denied,nor have I ever heard it denied.
The problem is when people start breeding for it, it dicates breeding and takes the focus off of the important details.
And for many such people the muffs still aren't large or full enough so they start reaching outside of the breed,usualy going towards Wests.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Scott
1630 posts
Feb 02, 2009
5:45 AM
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What breed of bird or animal wasn't derived from different breeds ? This is straight out of the color breeders play book,again to justify what they do.
This debate was never a debate until someone in fairly recent history made it one to justify crossbreeding ,and now he has lackys to carry that torch to confuse the inexperianced that know no better.
(I dont think there is a pure anything anymore.The BR was derived by diff. breeds. This debate has been going on for so long)
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2009 6:58 AM
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nicksiders
3235 posts
Feb 02, 2009
5:55 AM
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The only thing I want to add to what Scott stated is that muffs in the Birmingham means "lightly" covered feet. Probably the best description would be the word "booted". The monster muffed birds I would call a cross for the obvious reasons.
I prefer the clean legged, but I do accept and expect some grouse legging and booting going on. The same is true with bull eyes or odd eyes. I don't like them, but I do accept when they occurr.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Scott
1631 posts
Feb 02, 2009
7:46 AM
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Actually Nick I have seen some pretty large ones out of old Smith stuff, I'm told that the crosses will also have feathers on the back of the hocks also where Birminghams don't.
Personaly I see nothing but negatives to heavy muffs on a performance breed, but grouse legs have no issues.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 02, 2009 7:48 AM
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0221
32 posts
Feb 02, 2009
8:49 AM
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Scott, I like what You said about confusion for the inexpreianced. Because only about 35% of the things talked about in here have to do with performance. Lets hear more about flying, training and breeding the true article.
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Sir Frankie
30 posts
Feb 02, 2009
12:35 PM
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Is grouse leg the same as a muff? I never heard of the term.
Thanks, Frank
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
263 posts
Feb 02, 2009
12:38 PM
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Frankie, a grouse legged bird has feathers all the way down the leg to the "ankle" whereas a muffed or booted bird also has feathers on its toes.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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