Alan Bliven
413 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:02 PM
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Let me ask you extremists something. Do you call a white racing homer a mongrel because it wasn't one of the original colors when the Homer was created?
You say it's different for performance birds than it is show birds. There is no better performance Pigeon than the Racing Homer and there have been 100 or more colors added to this breed since it's initial creation and nobody I have ever heard of runs people's birds down that weren't the original colors with insulting name calling such as "mongrel." That's absolutely ridiculous. I dare you to go in the genetics forum and attempt to propagate such off-the-wall dogmas to them. There is some of the greatest Pigeon minds in the world in there and they would laugh you to scorn. You guys need to have a mind of your own and stop following this nonsense propagated by Scott and KGB. It all comes to no good. What are the fruits of it? Division, hatred and hard feelings. And over what? Is it worth it? The NBRC doesn't back their extreme ideas. I wrote every board member a while back and not one of them agreed with them.
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Alan
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Scott
1670 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:08 PM
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Yea I remember when you and Bob went crying to them trying to shut us up,what a joke, they thought you were a nut job,in fact me and the Pres. at the time was just laughing about that last Spring.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
275 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:25 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Wow...who gets the 18 virgins...
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glenn
205 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:31 PM
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I have never heard of a White Self Racing winning a major race. Maybe a Grizzle but not a white self or any other funny color for that matter....Glenn
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
277 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:33 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Glenn, check out whiteracers.com from minnesota
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Scott
1671 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:35 PM
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No kidding Glenn , nor are those mutt crosses for color that he's talking about, breeding the mental fortitude back into them is the hard part be it Racer or Roller.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 07, 2009 10:39 PM
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glenn
206 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:36 PM
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Hello Mike:
Like I said they may be Grizzle's but not pure white selfs.......Glenn
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winwardrollers
119 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:40 PM
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Alan
Your being a little extreme...LOL
bwinward
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
278 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:43 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Glenn, you have an excellent copy and paste website..lets leave it at that...Get Pelosi to do your arguing for you guys...At least she can baffle us..LOL
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glenn
207 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:45 PM
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What does my website have to do with this?
Glenn
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
279 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:52 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Hers the deal Glenn, I listened to know it all big mouths like you 20 years ago...Put up with the BS...Aint doing it again...Got 5 different families in November...flying WC in May, and non stop from there..........You guys are ridiculous and full of nonsense..You all say I have been there and done that..Then went purist..BS...you rode someones shirt tail...and now are afraid to make your own way...leave the new guys alone!
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glenn
208 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:54 PM
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Hello Mike:
New guys I will help if they want it, anytime......Color Breeders talking shit is fair game...Glenn
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Bill C
224 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:57 PM
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Alan, you said, stop following this nonsense propagated by Scott and KGB". 95% of the guys who want rare colors are new guys to the roller world. The other 5% grew up, use common sence and want perfornace over a color that means nothing when the birds are flying high in the sky which is what the birmingham is all about. Now if you want fantails or modenas, well cross them with a hungarian chicken if you like but don't insult us by being followers. We all have advice and oppinions just like you do bud. Bill C
Last Edited by on Feb 07, 2009 10:59 PM
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
280 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:59 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Good I got some purty ones....The test is time... Did it hurt when they tattooed your arm?
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
281 posts
Feb 07, 2009
11:12 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Tattoo? What? If you cannot figure out what I meant, you do need help!
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glenn
210 posts
Feb 07, 2009
11:17 PM
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I understand it Mike....What is your point? Glenn
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RodSD
176 posts
Feb 07, 2009
11:31 PM
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I think DNA will show pedigree chart as in who descended whom. It might even show family/strain. I think for humans we can show parentage.
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
276 posts
Feb 08, 2009
12:53 AM
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You guys remind me of that old UNCF commercial, "A mind is a terrible thing to waste". A closed or narrow mind is a wasted mind!!
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
277 posts
Feb 08, 2009
12:57 AM
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As far as DNA testing, where would you get the bird that established the baseline from which all others are compared?
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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nicksiders
3252 posts
Feb 08, 2009
1:27 AM
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Why is it I never see the ignorance; hatred; division; prejustuice; and tea until someone who just lurks here steps in quickly and gives us this critisism while calling us fools and followers.
WOW, is this reality or just a perception?
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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pigeon pete
122 posts
Feb 08, 2009
5:11 AM
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Nick,
I see ignorance, hatred, division, and prejudice all around me all the time, but I never see any tea unless I brew it myself :o) Pete.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3067 posts
Feb 08, 2009
5:41 AM
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Hey All, before this gets more out of hand, lets all take a deep breath and then see if we can resolve this friction and keep it from getting completely personal.
I think we can end this on a positive note if each person commenting would provide a final summary of their position on the issue. Then leave it to the newbie to decide how he wants to spend his/her time and money.
If we keep going down the slide here, I may be compelled to lock this topic.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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pigeon pete
123 posts
Feb 08, 2009
5:55 AM
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Alan,
I would not lower myself to join in the name calling, by saying that you are also an extemist, but you do seem to expound some views that are as extreme or more extreme than those you accuse of being extremists. I may have to invoke the old but true saying,
"Only in America" to your statement about 100 or more colours being introduced into racing homers" because I do't know what you guys get up to.
In Europe I would say that 80-90% of racers are blue bars or blue checks.
A few keep red bars red checks and grizzles, and a few of them will carry bronze. ALL of these colours will on occasion show white to varying degrees, and in England they are called pied, or if carrying a lot of white, gay pied (although that is used less as a term since the word has been appropriated for another use).
I don't know the geneticists view, but white is not generally regarded as a seperate colour, rather it is a lack of pigment, and any racing fancier can pair pied racers together until the line becomes whiter or even pure white. That white has always been in the pigeon, even wild rock doves or other breeds of pure wild pigeons will sometimes show white.
I saw a pure white sparrow the other day, did your genetic expert freinds have something to do with that?
You use inflamatory and extreme language, you invite guys to join the genetics websites but then tell them they will be scorned and laughed at. Is it any wonder that genuine flying roller breeders resist your tempting offer?
I would be interested and educated if you could list the 100 or more introduced colours that have been introduced into the racing homers, not the Wedding day homers or the show homers but the genuine flying racers. Would it be extreme or me to ask you to back up your wild statement? In fact I would be most impresed if any fancier could list 100 or more pigeon colours without trolling through manuscripts ancient and modern.
In Britain we have show classes for racers that have to prove they are homers.
They have to enter and finish an official Homing union sanctioned race. You see some beautiful birds in these classes, but most of them took twice as long to 'race' home than the genuine racers. They are trained to a minimum distance, and entered in one race to qualify them for the shows. That's how it was when I attended shows, I apologise if things have changed in this century,lol Guys like Scott and KGB do have minds of their own and very strong mined they can be too, they have to be to withstand the slings and arrows of those who come along and wish to change the culture, and the breed, and the sport of the Flying Birmingham roller as we know it, to their own ends.
Pete
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2009 5:56 AM
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pigeon pete
124 posts
Feb 08, 2009
6:03 AM
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Hello again Allan,
you sure are an entertaining fellow.
In an earlier post you suggested that the 'extremist' wouldn't say stuff to other guys faces, well if they wouldn't they aren't very extreme extemists are they?
I remember Bill Barret calling out show guys at pigeons shows because the birds they had entered were not genuine rollers in his opinion.
I had to laugh when I read your post that said:---
"I used to be a loyal supporter of Tony and this forum but because these trolls have had a free hand, I left long ago. Ignorance, hatred, division and prejustuice isn't my cup of tea".
If you left long ago, how did you write that post? or is it your ghost that is stirring things up at the moment,lOL
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2009 7:57 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3068 posts
Feb 08, 2009
6:14 AM
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Pigeon Pete Said:
"I used to be a loyal supporter of Tony and this forum but because these trolls have had a free hand, I left long ago. Ignorance, hatred, division and prejustuice isn't my cup of tea."
Yet here you are... ;-)
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
278 posts
Feb 08, 2009
7:28 AM
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Tony,
Pete was just quoting an earlier post in this thread from Alan.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3069 posts
Feb 08, 2009
7:50 AM
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LOL, see what happens when people:
A: Don't carefully read the post and its context
B: Don't use proper punctuation marks
C: Comment before 'thinking"
D: Play Gotcha!
Sorry Pigeon Pete for being guilty of all the above and thanks to Joe for pointing it out.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2009 7:51 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3070 posts
Feb 08, 2009
7:53 AM
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What I should have done:
Alan Bliven Said:
"I used to be a loyal supporter of Tony and this forum but because these trolls have had a free hand, I left long ago. Ignorance, hatred, division and prejustuice isn't my cup of tea."
Yet here you are... ;-)
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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pigeon pete
125 posts
Feb 08, 2009
7:59 AM
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Tony,
I edited the punctuation ,marks in now,lol
And hey it's your forum you can say what you like as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for providing the medium for us to paly in! Pete.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3071 posts
Feb 08, 2009
8:20 AM
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LOL
Thanks Pigeon Pete! :-)
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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spinningdemon
306 posts
Feb 08, 2009
9:15 AM
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I was having fun on this thread and think that their could be some great learning. Thank you Tony for jumping in and calming the thread out.
I do not like to hear fellow fanciers call each others names or make them feel bad. Their have been plenty of hurt feelings and people leaving the hobby over things like that. I have said it before, the hobby is to small we need to incourage not discourage. Pigeon raising is in the minority of hobbies thats for sure. So play nice.
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
279 posts
Feb 08, 2009
10:46 AM
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Hey Guys,
As Scott once said so eloquently, "We are grown men playing with pigeons, we have a right to act childishly on occasion".
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Scott
1673 posts
Feb 08, 2009
12:22 PM
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A: Don't carefully read the post and its context
(sorry, but a few a just are like reading a sci fi novel, I would rather put my head in a micro wave than "carefully" read through)
B: Don't use proper punctuation marks
(why ? )
C: Comment before 'thinking"
(again ,why ? read Joe's last post)
D: Play Gotcha!
( I don't play that, I had them before my first post, I don't make things up and I am never dishonest, which is why I will never be caught in a lie)
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2009 12:48 PM
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Scott
1674 posts
Feb 08, 2009
12:31 PM
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Yea sounds impressive "genetic forum" when in reality it is nothing more that a bunch of crossbreeding color breeders ,Yea thats on my priority list LOL
Genetics is a hobby all it's own,it evolves soley around mongralizing breeds for color,nothing more and nothing less.
(You use inflamatory and extreme language, you invite guys to join the genetics websites but then tell them they will be scorned and laughed at. Is it any wonder that genuine flying roller breeders resist your tempting offer? )
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2009 12:45 PM
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Dave Szab
223 posts
Feb 08, 2009
12:40 PM
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Now Scott,
Don't try and be rational and reason with him, it will never work. LOL.
Dave
*****************************************************
Yea sounds impressive "genetic forum" when in reality it is nothing more that a bunch of crossbreeding color breeders ,Yea thats a my priority list LOL
Genetics is a hobby all it's own,it evolves soley around mongralizing breeds for color.
(You use inflamatory and extreme language, you invite guys to join the genetics websites but then tell them they will be scorned and laughed at. Is it any wonder that genuine flying roller breeders resist your tempting offer? )
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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spinningdemon
308 posts
Feb 08, 2009
2:12 PM
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Scott said,
Genetics is a hobby all it's own,it evolves soley around mongralizing breeds for color,nothing more and nothing less.
Just a few questions,
1- do you breed best to best?
2- do your kits show improvment each year?
3- do you have a foundation cock or hen?
4- do you mate father to daughter, mother to son, aunt to nephew?
5- do you pick breeders with narrow flights and short arm bones?
If you answear yes to any of the above you are using genetics. Again color is only one part of genetics.
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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pigeon pete
130 posts
Feb 08, 2009
3:17 PM
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Good post David,
A good list for new fanciers to pick good ideas from.
That list is what I would call practical genetics.
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Scott
1678 posts
Feb 08, 2009
4:22 PM
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Dave, I call it stock sence,without it you have nothing.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Ballrollers
1738 posts
Feb 08, 2009
6:20 PM
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Tony,
Perhaps guys need to accept that there may be "MORE THAN ONE STRAIN OF BIRMINGHAM ROLLER"? If we could all accept that fact, it may be a way to end most of this name-calling. From reading past history, it looks to me like these questions have been around, in one form or another, for decades. I don't think, we want to solve this riddle, then what would we do to amuse ourselves? LOL!
Cliff
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RodSD
178 posts
Feb 08, 2009
6:23 PM
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Some people do have that remarkable stock sense, but I have to admit they will still use genetics one way or another.
I think we should define what we mean by "purebred". That is causing us confusion. As I understand Doberman pinscher dog was created by crossbreeding other dogs to create that breed. Once that is done we end up calling it purebred Doberman. Then when we wanted to have another "purebred" Doberman we mate it with "purebreed" Doberman. If we mix it with say German Shepherd we end up calling it crossbred or not a purebred. Maybe in the end our definition of "purebred" is what causes us this dissent and hard feelings.
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RodSD
179 posts
Feb 08, 2009
6:30 PM
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I can relate to pure homer as well because it is a created breed perhaps from 3 different types of pigeons. Once that was accomplished people mate only "purebred" homers to get another homers. If they mate homers with other breeds say rollers, then the babies are not called pure homers anymore--a crossbred. We are now back again how Birmingham rollers came to be. Is it a product of different kinds of birds or just appeared out of nothing?
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