topnotch uk
262 posts
Feb 12, 2009
7:46 AM
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hi all just wondering is there ENE one on here trying the bull system this year i did try it 10-years ago with no sucks-es George mason did the bull system some years ago with is dark checker ball cock (MRPC-48-89)George got very good results from this cock so what are your views on the bull system yours-in sport ken
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0221
82 posts
Feb 12, 2009
8:00 AM
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If You want alot of birds out of a great cock, and it moves you in the right direction. The bull system is a fast way to get there. I have birds down off #48 and I'm well pleased with that blood.
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topnotch uk
266 posts
Feb 12, 2009
8:11 AM
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nice 1 o221 hope in to be up masons house next week live not 2 fare from masons house got birds direct out of 48 back to is dorter mating very good smooth rollers o221
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spinningdemon
340 posts
Feb 12, 2009
11:57 AM
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Sorry, could one of you explain the BULL system?
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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j .wanless
648 posts
Feb 12, 2009
12:29 PM
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hi dave
bull system is when you run all of your hens to the 1 cock.
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brudahpete
430 posts
Feb 12, 2009
1:15 PM
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I have used this breeding technique before, it does work well but is really slow at producing many birds in one season. It will bring quality up if the cock is a really great bird.
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http://www.freewebs.com/brudahpete/
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j .wanless
649 posts
Feb 12, 2009
1:25 PM
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hi all
brudahpete you are so right.i too have used the system many times.not to its full potental but 20 odd y/brds a season.but you must have the right cock to start with.ive seen it used a few times by people that have used the wrong cock + wasted a years breeding almost.
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spinningdemon
343 posts
Feb 12, 2009
2:16 PM
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So its a polagamy system, Jared I did not you did that here in Utah LOL. Any way I was just wondering I have done that before with my orientals. I had one that was not a mean S.O.B. and I wanted more of that trait it worked great my orientals are not near as mean. I had to watch the records real close because I actually got a lot of young and with them being all red bars I had to make sure where I put the eggs.
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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wishiwon2
140 posts
Feb 12, 2009
5:23 PM
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One disadvantage of using a polygamy system like this is that it can be very labor and time intensive. For it to work well, you need to allow the 'bull' access to each hen at least once per day so he doesnt choose a favorite and reject the others. If you work a regular job, there isnt alot of time to be helping pigeons screw, they gotta do it on their own time. Also like Curneal pointed out, good records are an absolute must.
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Jon
"had fun, wish i won 2"
If it were easy, everybody would do it ...
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KATCHER
39 posts
Feb 12, 2009
6:57 PM
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cud some one post pictures of this system of breeding????? its easy to just mention how to do it!!! let us see it step by step!!
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Roll Down
48 posts
Feb 12, 2009
8:36 PM
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A good explanation of the "Bull System" by Nigel Cowod can be found by searching through the articles at: PigeonNetwork.com
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wishiwon2
146 posts
Feb 12, 2009
10:21 PM
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Fontana,
Yes, the cock bird needs access to each hen daily. Let them together until he treads her and calls her to the nest, then take him away, rest for few hours and expose him to the next hen. I know of using 3 hens at a time, I suppose you could use 4 or maybe 5, but there is a physical limit for the cock birds too.
No, the hens generally will not sit and raise the babies themselves. I know of some who have but I wouldnt recommend it. You will need at least 3 pairs of fosters per each donor hen to stay on laying schedule.
Tom Monson has wrote about polygamy breeding systems for pigeons and has had articles in a few roller periodicals. Tom also included illustrations of a pen designed to mate 3 hens with 1 cock, it works well butlike I said is labor intensive. Try googling it. The trick is playing the pigeon psycology game right, cocks need space and territory, they claim their mates, the hen must accept him to start her ovulation cycle ...
Another thing I have done alot of is mate a cock with 2 hens simultaneously each in their own breding pen. the pens must be identical and secure form other pigeons. Move the cock into 1 hens pen in a.m. remove in the evening. House him by himself over night. The next day put him in with the other hen in a.m. Do this for 3-5 days initially, until the hen has accepted him and they are getting broody (claiming a nest). Rest the cock for 3-4 days, then resume unitl the hen lays. Pull the eggs to fosters, rest for 3 days and start over. I have done this with 2 hens sucessfully several times. It is less labor intensive but slower. Eventually I found that the cock prefered 1 hen more than the other. You will still need foster parents. I recomend you dont pull more than 3 sets of eggs from a hen consequetively without resting her for a few weeks.
Good luck!
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Jon
"had fun, wish i won 2"
If it were easy, everybody would do it ...
Last Edited by on Feb 12, 2009 10:24 PM
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topnotch uk
295 posts
Feb 13, 2009
12:34 PM
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has i said i did try this but with no success a lot of wasted months wishiwon2 is bang-on with is post never again i now breed of 10 pairs and get good result with my birds + with the bull you need a load of feeders and synchronisation and if you get it wrong you balls it up PS pardon my french lol
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brudahpete
432 posts
Feb 13, 2009
4:21 PM
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Jon, you're right about labor intensive! I do like the results though. It's a great way to do the best to best.
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http://www.freewebs.com/brudahpete/
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tapp
665 posts
Feb 13, 2009
7:14 PM
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Ken, Someday I hope to have a cock that I can use that way. But it would have to be great in every way. And prove it self with a few different hens. And the young flew out a few years. Then I would breed the heck out of him. As of yet I have no such cock!!!!!----------
Tapp
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j .wanless
653 posts
Feb 14, 2009
3:12 AM
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hi all
tapp your right a bull cock should have proved himself to numerous hens for about 3 or 4 years before considering to use it on the bull system. too many people rush this system .then find out it as not worked + blame the system.when in reality it thier fault because theyve used the wrong cock.the system is
very good when done propperly.
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Roll Down
49 posts
Feb 15, 2009
8:18 AM
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Topnotch and wishiwon:
You do not need feeders for the "Bull System"
My above post explains where you can find the info on using it.
As brudahpete says though;" You're right about labor intensive!"
Geo. D.
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wishiwon2
151 posts
Feb 18, 2009
10:08 PM
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I just looked up the article by Nigel Cowod, and as Geo said you wouldnt need foster for that system. The method I am familiar with, however, does. As described by Cowod, it is only good for 1 round. As Monson describes, and I have used, several rounds.
Tapp and Wanless suggest that the cock you use as "the bull" ought to be a proven prepotent cock. I can agree. However, I used this system to do exactly that, prove out a cockbird. I can breed him to 3-4 hens that I know what they produce, and in 1 year I can know if the stud is worth keeping in stock. It also works well if you have limited access to a particular stud, like if you had a bird on loan or owned a partnership on a cockbird.
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Jon
"had fun, wish i won 2"
If it were easy, everybody would do it ...
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Shadow
351 posts
Feb 18, 2009
11:38 PM
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Roll Down in my own opinion is absolutely correct as regards Cowood system,having used other systems,this is by far the less complicated,once its done right,let your Stock Birds rear young first,then introduce The Bull system for one round,have had 100% success with this system,less time intensive,less birds being used,no fosters as such,wouldn't See age of Bull as a barrier,as long as he is good enough,intend to use a yearling within two months,who is showing me all I want to see,regarding kit habits,rolling ability,he is bred from two proven lines,Wanless X Mosley,hopefully I get a full hatch,of 18 half bros and sisters,who accordingly will also be a half bro or sister to previous two rounds from Stock Birds,but definitely best Bull system if you are interested in this method of breeding.
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