nicksiders
4 posts
Jan 21, 2004
9:31 PM
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Are they really full blooded Birminghams or are there a little Oriental Roller in the mix?
I have had long time breeders who have told me there has to be something other than a Birmingham Roller in the mix and yet other breeders whom I respect tell me that they are pure. That droop wings appear out of the best birds that are pure.
Last Edited by nicksiders on Jan 21, 2004 9:34 PM
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rollerpigeon
19 posts
Jan 22, 2004
10:51 PM
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I was looking at the Oriental Roller in the Pigeon by Levi, it says that it is thought by some authorities to be the "progenators" of all other rollers.
I wonder if someone thought what could be the harm if they put one of their rollers onto an Oriental if afterall rollers came from them?? Someones experiment??
But I should also say, I have a red check cock with those drooped wings that looks like an Oriental. Of the hundreds and hundreds of birds I have bred, this is the ONLY one that has had that. Is this a "throw back" to its original progenator?? hmmmm...
To pull a quote from the above post:
"Are they really full blooded Birminghams or are there a little Oriental Roller in the mix? I have had long time breeders who have told me there has to be something other than a Birmingham Roller in the mix and yet other breeders whom I respect tell me that they are pure. That droop wings appear out of the best birds that are pure".
Are these long time breeders accepting drooping wings as something good or a benign trait that does not effect the roll?
By them saying their best birds have this wing droop, does it just arbitrarily show up, and then these birds happen to develop into top rollers or are they intentionally selecting breeders demonstrating the trait and have really just added the trait through selective breeding?
Did I just say that right? Do ALL their wing drooped rollers turn out best or just some?
Last Edited by on Nov 21, 2007 8:32 PM
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nicksiders
5 posts
Jan 22, 2004
11:03 PM
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There is one man whom I always believe and he tells me there is something else in the mix that causes droop wings in most lofts. The Birmingham Roller has been around as a bred too long to be throwing so many droop wings in one man's loft.
I will continue to believe him. I believe some breeders are spiking the tea. I also believe some are spiking the tea to produce a color...............
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STARFIRE
5 posts
Jan 30, 2004
6:20 PM
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So your bird has droopy wings.Is it a good bird? Do you like it ? Does it matter that it has droopy wings? No one knows what causes that.There has been all kinds of birds bred into these rollers over the last 100 years,starting in England.Do you know all the grizzled rollers you have today are decendants of tipplers that were bred into them in England?I have rollers with 12-14 feathers in their tails.
They probably have oriental in them from way back in their ancestry,but they don't have droopy wings.I read all these posts and I think everybody thinks and worries about their birds too much.Where does droopy wings come from?Who knows ,who cares. If you don't like the bird don't keep it.It won't make any difference,in the birds performance.It all depends on weather it good enough to keep and if you like it or not.
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nicksiders
8 posts
Feb 02, 2004
9:38 PM
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The only concern I have is breeders spiking the tea. There are breeds of dogs, cats, horses, and pigeons. Our goal should be to improve the breed not change it.
Now that we have established the Birmingham Roller standard we should breed to fullfil the standard. Quit spiking the tea.
If you are raising Birmingham Rollers don't throw in an Ice Pigeon in for the color and still call it a Birmingham Roller even if it still performs like a roller. It becomes something else. I am not saying that all droop wing Birmingham Rollers are something else, but some of them draw a lot of suspecion. Only the breeder knows I guess.
Just because the bird started out with a mix of other birds does not mean we keep throwing other birds into the mix. We now have declared the breed a Birmingham Roller we stop throwing other birds into the mix.
I rambled a bit didn't I?
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Freddie
7 posts
Feb 04, 2004
3:57 PM
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Droop wing birds means nothing. Some of my Jerry Higgins family of birds carry their wings lower then their tail.
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
Feb 05, 2004
7:23 AM
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Droopy wings have nothing to do with crosses although some think that it may be a throw back from the developement of the breed others see it as weak tendon strength in the wing,I have one cock here,its full brother to one of my foundation hens,I want to do a Full bro/sis mating but I also don't want droopy wing birds(personal preferance) in the loft,I'll do it just to see but.
Scott
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centralvalleylofts
79 posts
Nov 21, 2007
8:28 PM
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hey scotty just wanted to know how did this mating go did you develope any orientals yet.lol.just kitting but interested?
central
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gotspin7
546 posts
Nov 22, 2007
5:16 AM
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I have a couple of hens that have the droopy wings they are jammed up, I taught it was because of such!LOL, I wonder if Nick still thinks that the droopy winged birds are crosses?
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hectorvicki2003@yaho
69 posts
Nov 22, 2007
8:09 AM
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I think droopy wings is a throback to some cross,otherwise they whould all be droopy winged.
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Hector Coya
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J_Star
1312 posts
Nov 22, 2007
8:40 AM
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I have birds that started with droopy wings until they passed the first year and they corrected. Go figure.
Jay
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gotspin7
551 posts
Nov 22, 2007
11:27 AM
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Hector,on this one I will have to disagree, The family of birds I have has been bred by competitive roller fyers I doubt that they would breed for droopy wings!LOL!!
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1157 posts
Nov 22, 2007
12:12 PM
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Now Nick.You went and said it so I just got to ask.You said:
Now that we have established the Birmingham Roller standard we should breed to fullfil the standard. Quit spiking the tea.
What is the standard that has been established for the Birmingham Roller? David
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hectorvicki2003@yaho
73 posts
Nov 22, 2007
12:22 PM
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Got spinn
i get them too everyonce in a while,that dosnt meen that sometime ago an Oriental wasnt bred to them.its out of the normal standard so that makes it diferent.
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Hector Coya
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Mongrel Lofts
433 posts
Nov 22, 2007
12:24 PM
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Nick,
Hope you don't mind, but I think I can answer that.. It's not as much what the standard is, but what it is not in the case of color breeders.. It is not birds that have been cross bred to other breeds of pigeons to make, Milky, toy stencil, Pencil and other crossbred for color, patterns and factors rollers. There are many breeds of rollers out there, but these are just some of the colors, factors and patterns that are NOT Birmingham rollers! They maybe rollers? Just as the russian tumbler or oriental is a roller, but these rare colored cross breds are not Birmingham rollers as imported to this country. They have been geneticly changed by the cross breeding color breeders. American competition rare colored rollers maybe. You guys still haven't named them, so I just call them Mongrel rollers till you see fit to give the a proper name!!! Just my personal opinion.. KGB
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hectorvicki2003@yaho
76 posts
Nov 22, 2007
12:29 PM
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KGB youve just named them, American competition rare colored rollers.
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Hector Coya
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1158 posts
Nov 22, 2007
12:33 PM
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KGB.You started to answer Nicks question about the droopy wings but somehow got lost and started yapping about color breeders again.We were talking about the droopy wings and the standard for the Birmingham Roller.
Who was the YOU that you wanted to change the name of their rollers.Nick??? David
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Alan Bliven
376 posts
Nov 22, 2007
12:43 PM
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KGB.. that's your opinion but the NBRC has a different one. There is no color standard, muffed standard, crest standard, wing standard or any other standard for type for the Birmingham Roller. The only standard there is for the Birmingham Roller is performance.
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Alan
Last Edited by on Nov 22, 2007 12:45 PM
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Alan Bliven
377 posts
Nov 22, 2007
12:49 PM
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Nick,
You said, "Now that we have established the Birmingham Roller standard we should breed to fullfil the standard."
What is the standard and what organization established it? Was it the NBRC, the NPA or who?
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Alan
Last Edited by on Nov 22, 2007 12:50 PM
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Mongrel Lofts
434 posts
Nov 22, 2007
1:06 PM
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David,
I believe the droop wings come from a lack of back Muscle.. Birds with droop wings tend to roll deep, be unstable and lack strength of character.. I had some of the 1220 stuff they are talking about back in the early 80's.. Many were long with droop wings, rolled deep and rolled down with lots of wing switching.. I did get a great one now and then but have always seen the droop wing as a lack of physical muscle strength and tendon strength. Weakness key word.. Is that better David? LOL You wanted to know what the standard is for the Birmingham roller. It's a sporting breed. Key word BREED! So many have crossed the breed for color, factors and patterns that we that respect the breed are forced to define the breed by what it is not and what it will not throw. What is not in its genetic makeup.. If our fore fathers would have seen this color cross breeding coming, they surely would have made a breed standard much clearer. Just like our US constitution would have been worded different if they would have known Liberals would use it to kill baby's and deny the right to worship GOD.. I hope I have been helpful David.. KGB
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1159 posts
Nov 22, 2007
1:22 PM
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KGB.You said:
If our fore fathers would have seen this color cross breeding coming, they surely would have made a breed standard much clearer.
So just bacause the forfathers of Birmingham Rollers set the standard WHY hasn't it been changed to protect it after all these years.Could it be because Pensom said it couldn't be improved upon?
Just like our US constitution would have been worded different if they would have known Liberals would use it to kill baby's and deny the right to worship GOD..
I agree with you here and it for sure needs people to step up and change it.Only way to protect the BR and our Constitution is for Folks to get the changes made.
If we can't get the changes made then we just have to accept things as they are.David
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black_hawk_down
45 posts
Nov 22, 2007
10:04 PM
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hey you guys i was hoping you guys can post up some of your droopy winged rollers? thanks-joe
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ezeedad
53 posts
Nov 23, 2007
12:01 PM
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Cornell Norwood had a droopy winged roller...74NL#67 a dark checker bronze... We used to stand there looking at her in the show pen and laugh our asses off, cause we knew that anybody who saw her would think that she was a cull... But she was bred out of a grand son of 65NBRC#2564(Pensom) and a daughter of 119..66NBRC#6030 also bred by "The Man"
That bird produced nothing but heat...
Gomez
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