black_hawk_down
188 posts
Feb 27, 2009
3:42 PM
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I can assure you guys that SappAttack is not a color breeder. And believe me they roll deep with good velocity. Now that some guys on here mentioned the CRC line, my first birds that i acquired from my cousin were from the CRC line and those birds did throw those colors posted in SappAttack's pictures. I still have that same pair till this day and use them as fosters. My hen is a yellow and the cock is a black w/f to be specific. my cock threw many dilute offsprings. Although they are show birds as mentioned, they are great performers likewise. -joe v.
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2009 4:02 PM
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Scott
1775 posts
Feb 27, 2009
4:18 PM
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J.C. Joe's the weinie, not me LOL , good luck
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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JMUrbon
653 posts
Feb 27, 2009
4:19 PM
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Sapp I am not saying anything negative about you. I am just stating my views on that bird. I am not enen saying it can't or doesn't roll.I do hope the bird works out for you. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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Bill C
254 posts
Feb 27, 2009
9:12 PM
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J.C. Joe is a good guy. Maybe he forgot to put in LOL after, " color project gone bad". That was funny and you have to admit it.
I have something here that is the ugliest bird I had ever seen and she rolled good. She got cought by a cooper after a roll and I chase him and got the bird back but her wing healded crooked and she never can fly in a kit again. I have been breeding her and I have a son in a kit right now that is actually uglier than her. I have no idea what the heck she is or her son. I wouldn't put a picture of them on here for being misunderstood as breeding a " what the heck is that" from Scott.
I too dislike all the pictures of birds to ask what is this or that. I understand you or someone really wants to know what it is but so many breed for certain colors and how to get an alomond or qualmond and then it is breeding completely opposite to what these birds are meant to do.
I wish you luck but these guys are a big help with when asked a question about performance. Joe would say the same thing about this hen I have. I got her from a friend when I started 7 years ago. She was a late hatch and the guy said you want this squeaker. They hatched this one out before I threw all the eggs away at the end of the year.
The color thing is most intersting to me for the humor. Bill C ...PS I do belive you, keep the performace going with what you have.
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2009 9:47 PM
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Colors101
7 posts
Feb 27, 2009
9:29 PM
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There's nothing funny about a loft full of blues LOL. It's just a loft full of "Blues".
I feel that some of these guys are asking questions for guidance about what they simply have, not what the opinions are about what to do with them. Leave those questions up to the folks that know first what they're looking at, and secondly if they need to know more.
In other words, if someone asks what color something is, if you don't know, there ain't no need for input. It just clogs up Tony's forum. So perhaps take the humor you find in poking at a guy for asking a question offline for a change and allow a simple question to be answered by a simple answer.
Thanks,
Colors
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
362 posts
Feb 28, 2009
6:02 AM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Hey Colors I could not agree with your last post any more. I have heard from so many that will no longer contribute to this site due to the heckling they have received from some here. I am actually meeting one face to face for the first time tomorrow....J.C. dont let the likes of some sorts here run you off...Many will jump in on your behalf...
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SappAttack
59 posts
Feb 28, 2009
6:47 AM
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I knew what the bird was before I posted the pics. I just didnt know if anyone else was flying something like it. After I told the guy I got it from about how stirred up people got on here, he took a look at the post too. After laughing for awhile, he told me about the "Flyumhigh" website where they still breed this line today, which is known as the "CRC Gold Wing". And I happen to think its a beautifull bird. But in the future i will keep theese things to myself. Ive only been in this hobby for a little while now. But, for the short amount of time that I have shown intrest in rollers, I have gained some GREAT friends that any roller person would be LUCKY to have on thier side. Does this have something to do with showing respect at all times and keeping my lil' jokes to myself? You tell me...
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J.C.
"Texas Style Rollers"
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3283 posts
Feb 28, 2009
5:45 PM
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Things seldom seen or spoken of in a performance only loft: Qualmond - Opel - Andalusion - Golden - Ember - Brown - Mahogany - Strawberry - Indigo - Lace - Pencil - Reduced - Barless
I am sure there may be more, but this is all I could think of at the moment
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
371 posts
Feb 28, 2009
9:01 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Hey Nick, Your right on there. It amazes me that some of these colors like indigo and andalusion were there before many here were born are not accepted. The real kicker is that brown is one of the three colors of the pigeon, and it is not accepted either...Go figure.
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
322 posts
Feb 28, 2009
11:01 PM
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Mike, That is because brown is not a color indiginous to Birmingham Rollers. It was introduced from another breed, like pencil, stencil, barless, reduced, Opal Ember, and Qualmond.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3285 posts
Feb 28, 2009
11:11 PM
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Right on, Joe.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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gotspin7
2264 posts
Mar 01, 2009
11:47 AM
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Mike, That is because brown is not a color indiginous to Birmingham Rollers. It was introduced from another breed, like pencil, stencil, barless, reduced, Opal Ember, and Qualmond.
Joe, Right on bro! I love your honesty!! See you in May... Good luck
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Sal Ortiz
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diamondrollers
315 posts
Mar 02, 2009
11:17 AM
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an old friend of mine had birds of that color i my self dont bred for color but that bird sure looks like the old crc birds out of oaklnd ca
sal
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diamondrollers
316 posts
Mar 02, 2009
11:23 AM
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hey colors101
how about a loft full of red checks and blue bars thats what i have and i love it
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harrison
274 posts
Mar 02, 2009
11:26 AM
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Have your birds been smoking the green stuff? I noticed they have red eye. LOL yours in roll harrison uk hull.
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
377 posts
Mar 02, 2009
12:53 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Hey Joe,
I find your statement interesting. The color brown is misinterpreted by many folks. Ask the English what brown is, and see what they have to say. I have a very hard time believing that with only three basic colors the roller made it through with only two..
Mike, That is because brown is not a color indiginous to Birmingham Rollers. It was introduced from another breed, like pencil, stencil, barless, reduced, Opal Ember, and Qualmond.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
Last Edited by on Mar 02, 2009 12:54 PM
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
324 posts
Mar 02, 2009
3:39 PM
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Mike,
Believe it or don't believe it, but brown is an introduced color in Birmingham Rollers. Hell the Brits are the last people to ask about colors, ash red bars are mealy bars over there, lavendar showing blue is a silver tarred, etc. They are great people and fine breeders of rollers but they have their own language when it comes to color on pigeons.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
Last Edited by on Mar 02, 2009 3:44 PM
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
378 posts
Mar 02, 2009
4:55 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Hey Joe, I understand fully what you are saying in regards to the English...The Modena breeders say the same things about us roller breeders having our own language as well..LOL...Still I would like to see proof of no brown... I do not think this can be proven - Maybe I am wrong; would not be the first time..Show me the very first BR and documentation showing no brown, and I will admit that I am wrong once again..
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Colors101
10 posts
Mar 02, 2009
5:11 PM
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Sal - nothing wrong with blues and reds. There are very beautiful birds bred from these two basic colors. I myself have a loft full of them! I must admit though, my reds add a variable in that it simply isn't a loft of the same ol' same ol. I love a good colored blue-bar as much as the next guy, and admitidly, that's probably a more rare color today than some of the other "colored" rollers.
Thanks,
Colors
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
384 posts
Mar 02, 2009
6:00 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Hey Colors, You seem to be schooled on this color thing? Straighten me out on brown and BR's please. I would hate to pass any of my opinions on as fact, if indeed they are misconstrued. Thanks!
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Colors101
14 posts
Mar 02, 2009
7:38 PM
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Mike,
Brown is somewhat misunderstood, and it's existence in pigeons is as true as Recessive Red and Recessive Yellow. In fact, in the proposes inate colors to the Birmingham Roller, Brown would work in many of the same was as Rec. Red/Yellow. That being, unless you bred enough of them out of a bird that was carrying it, you would never know it did. Sounds like you've seen some humdingers of a Brown in person before to bring it up. I've talked to many fanciers in which their best birds were Browns, Brown Opals, or even Brown Almonds.
Simply put, if the first two birds of any breed were simply two blue-bars, you could potentially breed the pair to death and never get one. Take the cocks from that mating, breed them to death and never get one. Ten years from then, take a cock from the original pair and mate it to another blue-bar from the same stock and BAM you get a Brown. Recessive Red can and has done the same things. I've seen it happen in my own loft.
So to say it wasn't a recognized color of the original Birmingham Roller is somewhat acceptable, in that there is the 100% possibility that it simply wasn't produced yet, but it could easily have been carried behind any Ash-Red or Blue pigeon. The same thing happened with the Reduced gene. There was not any outcrossing (according to the text books and the good word of the man that bred them that is), but it took many generations of breeding for the genes to simply express themselves.
Hope this helps,
Colors
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
389 posts
Mar 02, 2009
7:59 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Very helpful Colors...Yes I have seen some humdingers in brown. It has been quite some time since I have seen a brown. I have also seen some very good what we called duns. Seems to me that the duns I recall were brown and black crossed. I think it would be easier if someone took all these terms from everywhere and came up with one name for each..LOL.. I mean what is it red schietti or recessive red?
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Colors101
15 posts
Mar 02, 2009
8:29 PM
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Well Dun is genetically Spread Blue Dilute. More simply Dilute Black. Silver is the appropriate lable for Dilute Blue-Check, Blue-Bar, Blue Barless. I don't know why "DUN" is thrown out there - I guess for us all to have to memorize one more color!
We'll chat more later - I gotta get in bed.
Thanks,
Colors
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
325 posts
Mar 03, 2009
8:12 AM
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Mike,
I think some confuse dun with brown because dun has a rich color to it that looks brown in some light conditions. Been raising rollers since 1960 and have never seen a brown Birmingham Roller.
Colors101, you might have a little more credibility with some of us if you come out from behind that nom de plume and tell us who you are.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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spinningdemon
383 posts
Mar 03, 2009
8:39 AM
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Tony, I agree with your post completely. We should incourage not discourage. The hobby is way to small we need to get more breeders not chase away the ones we have.
Sapp, Breed the poop out of it, fly the young then you will know its value. I think its an awesome bird and that mottle is a good looker to.
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.intheair.ning.com
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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Alohazona
570 posts
Mar 03, 2009
8:47 AM
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I think Joe and Scott gave you some solid advice on that bird.There will be your exceptions here and there,and that bird may be an example of that.
If that bird has the goods like you say,I would be breeding the crap out of it,with fosters,to get a kit full of them for the fall.
If the bird doesn't produce,it's like any other bird red,blue,or white.
Aloha,
Todd
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spinningdemon
384 posts
Mar 03, 2009
8:52 AM
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Color 101 I have enjoyed your posts and have learned a lot. I have seen some browns that would nock your socks off. Nice tight spin, back to the kit, breed the same. What else would you want in a roller. The family has been around for over 40 years, but I was told the brown dosent hold up? Brown was introduced to the performance breeds by the late Gary Gilbert. If you want to know the story e-mail me.
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.intheair.ning.com
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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SappAttack
72 posts
Mar 03, 2009
8:09 PM
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The performance has held up in the "CRC Gold Wing" that started this post. But there are TOO many people who will disagree. I cant wait to get the chance to proove em wrong.. Oh well..
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J.C.
"Texas Style Rollers"
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gotspin7
2268 posts
Mar 04, 2009
4:43 AM
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I cant wait either. Good luck bro..
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Sal Ortiz
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