TheGame
513 posts
Feb 25, 2009
11:40 AM
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I have lost 6 baby birds already... They usually die around the 3rd day or so. Any idea what can be causing them to die??
The temperature here is in the mid 30s during the day at night more towards the mid high 20s. I also have a heating lamp that I leave on all the time which helps raise the temperature.
Last Edited by on Feb 25, 2009 12:15 PM
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jnyce
571 posts
Feb 25, 2009
12:11 PM
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it could be cankers
jerry t
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harrison
236 posts
Feb 25, 2009
12:12 PM
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Sorry to here your bad news. I also have had this problem .my problem was due to the cold weather. I have split my birds up untill march now and I will pair up again as I dont want to run my birds into the ground and come the warm weather they dont look strong.Good look mate yours in roll Harrison uk ps. are you sure that you dont have a cock thinking that he can go into all the boxes and take over? As the birds will only take so much from him and think fu*k this were better off sat on a perch somewere rather then getting batterd.
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TheGame
514 posts
Feb 25, 2009
12:12 PM
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You think I should put all the breeders on 4-1 for a week?
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TheGame
515 posts
Feb 25, 2009
12:14 PM
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Harrison It can't be a cock because they are in breeding cages. So its just the hen and the cock. Hopefully I can solve the mystery...
Thanks
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Bill from NJ
67 posts
Feb 25, 2009
1:23 PM
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Game,
Paratyphoid & E-Coli ?
Paratyphoid / Salmonella - Paratyphoid in pigeons is an acute or chronic bacterial disease caused by Salmonella. The primary means of infection is through fecal contamination of feed, water or the environment.
Something to check out.
Regards,
Bill from NJ
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TheGame
516 posts
Feb 25, 2009
2:12 PM
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Food and water is always clean and fresh... they are in cages that are dry. There a wire floor so they are never standing in their own feces.
Do you guys think it might because I don't use anything in the nest bowls? I give the birds straw and pine needles but should i start using padding? Could it be that the bowls get cold and then chill the babies?
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harrison
238 posts
Feb 25, 2009
2:23 PM
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HOPE you find the answer mate .yours in roll harrison uk.
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cr250
203 posts
Feb 25, 2009
3:29 PM
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Game Its from the cold.I have had about 7 0r 8 babys die from the cold.Why would you give you birds 4n1?Are the parents sick?As soon as it warms up you will be fine.Good luck
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Bill from NJ
69 posts
Feb 25, 2009
3:30 PM
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Game,
The hens may be carriers with out outward signs of disease.
Are the feces firm? or loose and watery?
I am just giving you some possibilities.
Look up web sites that discuss pigeon diseases.
Bill from NJ
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TheGame
517 posts
Feb 25, 2009
5:56 PM
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cr250 was thinking about giving it to them incase the babys were dying from canker or something or some other disease.
I am away at school for 5 out of the 7 days and its sucks getting a phone call from home because I always know its gonna be bad news and that something went wrong.
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TheGame
518 posts
Feb 25, 2009
5:58 PM
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Also how can it be the cold?? They are still at the age where the parents sit on them and keep them warm...
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cr250
208 posts
Feb 25, 2009
7:08 PM
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If I breed in the winter time I always lose some babys due to the cold.Anytime it gets below freezing.A heat lamp would help.
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JMUrbon
645 posts
Feb 25, 2009
7:55 PM
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Cancer takes longer than 3 days to effect the young. More than likely it's ecoli or paratyphoid. Paratyphoid will usually take the young early and in fact alot of young will die in the egg with paratyphoid. Joe
-----
J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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RodSD
196 posts
Feb 25, 2009
8:07 PM
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I agree with paratyphoid/salmonella. If those don't kill babies inside the egg, it will kill them after they are born. Parents could have been infected and as Bill says they can pass it to their children and because the babies haven't developed immunity yet, they die. Cure the parents first.
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TheGame
520 posts
Feb 25, 2009
8:08 PM
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So would 4-1 take care of paratyphoid/salmonella?
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Mark
34 posts
Feb 25, 2009
10:44 PM
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See if you can get some trimethoprim sulfa. Give it to them in their water for 7 days and back it up with some ProBios. A person can do this in their breeding pen. If they are on eggs, switch their eggs with wood ones. Let them sit the wood eggs and when they finaly get off of the wood ones, let them lay back with their own.
Mark
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Mark
35 posts
Feb 25, 2009
10:47 PM
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The Game, the parents or parent can be a carrier. They can look normal, but still pass it on to the babies.
Mark
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Windjammer Loft
727 posts
Feb 26, 2009
5:30 AM
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TheGame...you sure got alot of good responses to a very difficult question. It can be very difficult to give you an exact answer without seeing the situation. I would say it could possible be that the breeders might be too young.. Or that their could be too much going on in the loft. Such as,too much going in and out of the loft, slamming of doors. More disturbance then they can handle.. This wiil cause them to get off the eggs or the babies.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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pat66
297 posts
Feb 26, 2009
5:51 AM
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Game, I would treat them all with 4in1 and totally clean and dissinfect the whole loft,better safe than sorry!
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Pat
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Bill from NJ
70 posts
Feb 26, 2009
6:02 AM
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Game,
I will let you know some things up front.
I am telling you this because I am trying to be informitive and helpful to you, NOT to break your stones.
Do not take this info personally. So here goes....
1) you should have treated and evaluated all of your breeders weeks ago or at least at the end of last breeding season. Anyway, I mean weeks before you start breeding. (Tuck this info away for next season)
2) To treat now with any "Sulfer" type of drug will set your breeding plan back at least a month.
I figured a full 2 weeks to treat and another 2 weeks for ther medications to leave the pigeons sysyem and they begin to lay correctly.
Live and learn, it HAS happend to me also, this is why I can tell you from personal experience.
FYI, "visitors" and other friendly pigeon fanciers comming to your loft can unintentionally bring bad bacteria and a virus that can effect your loft, just be careful.
Regards,
Bill from NJ
Last Edited by on Feb 26, 2009 6:04 AM
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TheGame
521 posts
Feb 26, 2009
6:19 AM
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Bill from NJ not problem I really appreciate your help. I am new to this hobby and this is my first season breeding.
I guess I will be treating all the birds with 4-1 and clean out every cage with bleach and water. I hope this does it.
Thank you everyone for your help.
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Bill from NJ
71 posts
Feb 26, 2009
9:21 AM
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Game,
Paul has shared very good info too.."It can be very difficult to give you an exact answer without seeing the situation. I would say it could possible be that the breeders might be too young.. Or that their could be too much going on in the loft. Such as,too much going in and out of the loft, slamming of doors. More disturbance then they can handle.. This wiil cause them to get off the eggs or the babies".
This Sir is a real possibility also. Pigeons that are too young and inexperienced.
It is very difficult to diagnose any problems with out actually seeing the problems first hand.
But remember, treat for a full 2 weeks if this is the route you are going to follow.
Check out the meds section of your favorite supplier and do not be shy asking them for help and assistance also. Read, read, and read...
Regards,
Bill from NJ
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
353 posts
Feb 26, 2009
11:45 AM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Hey Game,
I am having the same problem here. I was also losing breeders. Tony can set you up with a good product to use and also the probiotics. I treated everybird before I started breeding early last winter and it still showed up. Treat them, get them better and go back at it. Very good advice from these folks.
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TheGame
523 posts
Feb 26, 2009
11:58 AM
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Lipper im not losing breeders im losing the babies!! lol
How are your birds doing after you treated them??
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
355 posts
Feb 26, 2009
12:02 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
They are doing much better. It does not matter that just your babies are dying. One of your adults is carrying the killer, if you dont treat it is going to get alot worse. You will more than likely lose adults as well. Act now!
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harrison
245 posts
Feb 26, 2009
1:41 PM
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(you said how can it be the cold as they are at the age were the pairents are still sitting on them) In the morning was when i would notice that the young was dead and they would be stone cold. It only takes a little change of tempricture in the baby and the pairents will not entertain them. Also I do not leave a light on so if the pairents come out of the box on a night or even come off the nest they find it hard to get back to the babys with it been so dark . GOOD LOOK yours in roll harrison uk.
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harrison
246 posts
Feb 26, 2009
1:41 PM
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(you said how can it be the cold as they are at the age were the pairents are still sitting on them) In the morning was when i would notice that the young was dead and they would be stone cold. It only takes a little change of tempricture in the baby and the pairents will not entertain them. Also I do not leave a light on so if the pairents come out of the box on a night or even come off the nest they find it hard to get back to the babys with it been so dark . GOOD LOOK yours in roll harrison uk.
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toronto15
47 posts
Feb 26, 2009
2:45 PM
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The Game. I believe one of your previous posts stated that you have Homers and Rollers,therfore I would think you have birds from various sources.Forget about breeding and follow Bill from NJ advice for know.Hope your birds Get Well Soon.Glen
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Mark
36 posts
Feb 26, 2009
6:25 PM
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using the sulfa will not set you back a month. if you remove all eggs and replace them with wood ones they will continue to set them until they don't hatch. In the meantime start the sulfa (it is a one week treatmeant) and back it up with a probios treatmeant (3 days). if you count the time the hens laid the origional eggs, and the time for them to lay back, it would be the quickest way to treat and not lose any time during breed season.
also why would you treat with a weaken med like 4-1 and not go stright for the most likly cause which is paratyphoid/salmonella/e-colli. i am sure it is not canker that is cause of the babies dieing. Sulfa is one of the best meds short of injection to treat for this bacteria.
Mark
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
GOLD MEMBER
2539 posts
Feb 26, 2009
6:53 PM
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4-1...............!!!
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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TheGame
524 posts
Feb 27, 2009
12:34 AM
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Toronto15 you are right I do have homers however only a pair that I got about 3 months ago or so. The homers however are in a differnt loft and are doing great. Their first round of eggs hatched as well and the babys are doing fine.
The babys that are dying are in my shed in breeding cages. No where near the homers.
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Bill from NJ
72 posts
Feb 27, 2009
11:04 AM
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Game,
I sincerely advise you to look up and Google "Paratyphoid & E-Coli".
Look at and read all of the DVM sites (or professional medical books) and their professional advice pertaining to pigeons diseases.
I will not list them here, too many, so you can find them out yourself.
I am telling you this because you are beginning to get poor advice being posted.
Do not take my word for anything, look it up yourself.
FYI, just continue to listen to these self appointed gurus.
I will guarantee that you will be out more than money and time.
I'm tired of wrapping my head in duct tape, after reading some of the advice here.
"It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools." Ecclesiastes 7:5
Good Luck what ever you decide to do.
Bill from NJ
Last Edited by on Feb 27, 2009 6:40 PM
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2552 posts
Feb 27, 2009
12:03 PM
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each new season there is a breakout of E.coli infection .E.coli is a normal inhabitant of the digestive system in pigeons it is desease potential but usually takes a predisposing condition to allow it the opportunity to cause the infection --------several things can open the door for it like stress, viral infection ,intestinal parasite and irritant of the bowel such as consuming chemicals while out fielding.
The usual predisposing factor in young birds is Adenovirus it begins appearing when young birds are mix either in training ,races or accumulating birds from various sources.adenovirus itself will not cause the disease but in the presence of E.coli it will allow E.coli to cause the disease ..treating Ecoli infection usually eliminates symptoms but does nothing for adenovirus as it must be conquer by the bird own immune system with time.the usual signs are vomiting in some of the birds,abnormal droppings, diarrhea and lethargy. there is no effective vaccine for adenovirus as we must let it run its cause while we try to control the E.coli infection during out breaks ..during outbreak we use a broad spectrum of antibiotics such as Amoxicillum <(spelling)to control it and use it only during outbreak not to prevent it will not work as a preventive and it will just make the birds immune to it so use it during outbreak. I have this info at the back of my head so I don't know if I spell some of the words right.these are facts I read from Dr.Marx.in the NBRC he also stated he treats them shooting from the hip it gentle on the birds and least expensive and a good anti-biotic .he uses 3 grams per gallon for 7 days and retreatment in couple of weeks because things deteriorates among the birds and as it spreads out through out the flock.. always best to take your bird to a vet to make sure what is the cause and get the right treatment for it..good luck..
Ralph
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