Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
401 posts
Mar 03, 2009
8:07 AM
|
----------
Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
In your honest opinion, what colors do you feel were introduced to the BR? What did they come from? when approx. were they introduced? Thanks!
|
spinningdemon
385 posts
Mar 03, 2009
8:53 AM
|
I am not color 101 but I know when brown was introduced if you want the story e-mail me dcurneal@hotmail.com
----------
David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.intheair.ning.com
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
|
Colors101
17 posts
Mar 03, 2009
9:38 AM
|
Hey Mike,
You got me! I'm not really an expert on the lineage of any specific breed, and I certainly wouldn't claim to know for a fact what was originally used, nor what was used to introduce any of the other colors we see today. Since none of us were around when it was created, and the fact that certain colors were identified as something different than what we know it today (ex. Red Dun = Sooty or Spread Ash Red), there is unfortunately no certain way to answer your question. At least not from my knowledge base. All I can offer are my opinions, and that probably wouldn't help anyone.
Thanks,
Colors
|
Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
402 posts
Mar 03, 2009
10:11 AM
|
----------
Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Well if that is the case and there is no way to know for sure 100% we have only a couple conclusions.
1. That anything documented recently with a date was introduced to the BR.
2. Anything undocumented may have popped up and been there all along hidden or unnamed or named many names.
3. Anything else then becomes speculation, opinion, or rumor.
Thanks for trying to help Colors.
Last Edited by on Mar 03, 2009 10:12 AM
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
326 posts
Mar 03, 2009
10:49 AM
|
Dave, I tried to email you at the address given and it came back as undeliverable
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
403 posts
Mar 03, 2009
11:14 AM
|
----------
Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Hey Joe try again it worked for me.
|
spinningdemon
389 posts
Mar 03, 2009
11:29 AM
|
Sunflower, I am sorry I checked the e-mail it is right. And for the amount e-mails I got on the subject there is a lot of interest on this color. What is your e-mail?
----------
David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.intheair.ning.com
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
327 posts
Mar 03, 2009
1:16 PM
|
Dave my email address is: jjbeach@lvnworth.com
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
Bill C
261 posts
Mar 03, 2009
2:22 PM
|
Mike, It is not only that at one time guys crossed birds to get a certain color but it continues to go on. I know a guy who breeds roll downs to his color birds to put roll into them. I had asked him, if he ever crossed something into a Birmingham roller that was not a Birm. roller and he said, " These are my birds and I'll do what I want with them."
You have to decide, yes or no? I will say this much, he does not have quality or velocity in his birds very much compared to the many other faniciers in the area. I do like this man and he know genetics like no other. We do not talk color birds at all. I focus on performance only with him.
You can have a pretty bird that rolls good or great but have you ever seen a kit of 20 roll good. If so why not in the top 25 of the big flys. Someday there might be a kit of 20 birds in the top 10 of the W/C but that will be one kit out of 9. Some guys are always in the top 30 or top 10 while many others are only top 10 once in a life time. Colored birds so far have never made the cut. Bill C PS my birds have not made the top 10 either!
Last Edited by on Mar 03, 2009 2:24 PM
|
Ty Coleman
560 posts
Mar 03, 2009
4:05 PM
|
Bill, there have been many flyers of colored birds in the top 10 several times. There is even a master flyer or two among them. There has been winners of the 11 bird with color birds also but to some of you the 11 bird has no meaning, to me I like it better.
----------
Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
|
Scott
1779 posts
Mar 03, 2009
4:17 PM
|
Ty, never have they stood on thier own on any major fly, never
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 03, 2009 4:18 PM
|
Ty Coleman
561 posts
Mar 03, 2009
4:47 PM
|
Scott, you always say that but your opinion on it is a mute point, they have, and they will continue to. Get over it.
----------
Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
|
Scott
1781 posts
Mar 03, 2009
4:54 PM
|
Name them Ty
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 03, 2009 4:56 PM
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
328 posts
Mar 03, 2009
5:42 PM
|
Hey Ty,
I know you won't like this but there is a reason the 11 bird fly is called the kiddie fly. It was won last year by an 11 yr old!!
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
spinningdemon
390 posts
Mar 03, 2009
7:01 PM
|
All I want to know is if the 11 bird is so easy why are there not more of you in the winners circle? If its so easy to win prove it.
What do I always get told "Put up or shut up"
well "Put up or shut up" show me how easy it is. No excuses just enter and show us how easy it is.
----------
David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.intheair.ning.com
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
|
Bill C
263 posts
Mar 03, 2009
8:26 PM
|
Ty, A kit of Almomnd? Andalusion? Indigo? Stencils? Help me out with those colors that have won? Bill C
|
KATCHER
113 posts
Mar 03, 2009
9:10 PM
|
cute pigeons are for little girls!!!!
|
TheGame
529 posts
Mar 04, 2009
12:36 AM
|
Oh yea Katcher?? And what kind of pigeons do you fly then?? Beastly manly pigeons??
|
KATCHER
114 posts
Mar 04, 2009
1:10 AM
|
not ice rollers!! nor pastels pencils stencils frills dilutes opals or milky or pink and white bars or pink and white checks and all the new color the mad scientis of birds are working with !!! game why are you all mad ??? relax thats what happend you fell in love with the fruit loops and the lucky charms ceral the colorfull cornflakes... and i belive you that they roll!!! but relax
|
KATCHER
117 posts
Mar 04, 2009
1:35 AM
|
if pemson didnt bring them home to the u.s.a i wont fly them rainbow pigeons!!! why are all you guys that fly rainbow pigeoins always expect tony to defend you guys.. if you guys stop opening up new treads or subjects about the pencil gold checks pink opals ect!!!the roller pigeon sport or hobby would be a better place... you raibow guys pickd your own problems!!! i mean wake up and smell the coffee its going to take a longgggggg time befor you rainbow guys mix in well with the guys including my self that fly the original colors that make up the BRS the ones pemson broth home!!! red and black and red and blue bars!!! not ice pigeon mixes and other pastels!!!
|
KATCHER
118 posts
Mar 04, 2009
1:37 AM
|
AND COLORs 101 NO DISRECPECT TO YOU!!! ITS NOT YOUR FAULT YOU NOW YOUR COLORS ;)!!! so i am cool with you!!
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3144 posts
Mar 04, 2009
4:15 AM
|
Hey Katcher, its great that you know what the "original" colors are. Now you need to let these others enjoy the site without your snide comments. You are in attack mode and violating the posting policy. Check it.
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
|
Ballrollers
1778 posts
Mar 04, 2009
7:17 AM
|
Joe (Sunflower),
I would like to simply remind us all that, yes, a young man has earned credit for winning the 11 bird fly. I am sure he had an excellent mentor to help guide him. Come to think of it, I believe that at least two master flyers have also won the 11 bird fly, KGB and Alex Hamilton, maybe more. I agree that not all flyers enjoy both competitions equally, but to try to tie a flyer's maturity or masculinity to which contest the flyers enter, is a poor choice of ideas, in my opinion. These competitions are "GAMES" people play using pigeons. I have heard many flyers say that they would compete in any contest involving rollers.....just for the "SPORT" of it. It certainly ain't the money. LOL! We should all support each other in these activities; not try to jab each other in the eye with the dirty end of the sharp stick. The more men who raise and enjoy performing Rollers, the stronger the competitions become. I have never understood the need of some to drive the men from the hobby that DO support the Roller organizations and DO compete, regardless of the family of rollers that they have chosen to work with....
Cliff
|
Scott
1783 posts
Mar 04, 2009
8:13 AM
|
Don Oullete also Cliff , he is also the only one to win both the 20 and the 11
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
329 posts
Mar 04, 2009
8:25 AM
|
Cliff, You are correct. My comment was inappropriate and mean spirited. For this I apologize to any and all who I may have offended. No excuses!! I am however getting a little tired of this constant bickering over color in rollers. If it spins with the correct style, who cares what color it is! I do not condone the cross breeding of rollers to bring in new patterns or colors. There is enough variety already to satisfy the eye of most fanciers. Again I apologize for my crass remark!
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
Last Edited by on Mar 04, 2009 8:28 AM
|
Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
404 posts
Mar 04, 2009
8:27 AM
|
----------
Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Colors pretty much summed up what I was asking from him and I have come to the conclusion I stated above. I really dont care who breeds what or how they breed them. I finally saw a pencil, it was not the picture I had in my mind at all...I wanted to know what "exactly" had been introduced to the BR and documentation of that introduction. I also wanted to know what had perhaps been there all along, but due to different names etc. had never been recognized in the BR.
|
Pumpkin Man
56 posts
Mar 04, 2009
9:05 AM
|
I don't think it really matters because no one can claim to have a 100% Fullblooded Birmingham roller anyway. If you do, to prove it you would have to have pedigrees all the way back to the beginning of the breed. To be totally confident each mating of all the birds all the way back through those pedigrees in time would have had to be bred in individual cages to provide you that guarantee. You would also have to assume that no errors were ever made by you or any of the prior fanciers that kept the ancestors of your birds. And you would just be proving it to yourself because the rest of us don't care. So to me it's almost rather mythical. I don't believe I can say my Mee birds are more pure than someone's Turner birds. Who knows 30 gnerations back what the hell either were. I just care what they do now. I think the only thing you can do if you want good stock and give yourself some reasonable assurance that you got some good tumblers worthy of the TITLE "Birmingham Roller" is to get birds from a seriously competitive fancier pick the birds that spin like hell, select and breed from those birds that spin like you want and do your best to reproduce them. Don't crossbreed other breeds into your stock and save years of wasted time by going to someone that is winning the flys and is a fierce competitor. I assume their expertise and standards would be higher than mine anyway, and if they win consistently and their birds are being judged they are the real deal birds whatever color they are. This is a performance based sport. They are all tumblers and those that spin to standard are Birmingham Rollers the rest are just tumblers,flippers, trash, whatever you call them. They may not be fullblooded, but I think fullbloods are a myth. Probably what most of us have are purebred rollers, some culls, some good, some plain marked some colored. Technically and gentically someone could cross an ice pigeon to a BR and backcross to the "pure" roller and seven generations later of linebreeding back pure have a purebred 93% roller, but why would you want to waste that much of your life when guys like Mee, Higgins, Reed etc. have already done the work for you. Go to the top competitors and buy what you can afford. Don't waste your money and pay ridiculous prices from self-appointed gurus, but assume to pay more if a guy has a performance record. You get what you pay for. I don't believe in wasting my time trying to reinvent the wheel. Life is short. To me a Turner bird spinning it's a-- off is a BR as is a Mee bird spinning it's a-- off. and culls will show up in both families. The percentage of "pure" blood in both strains may not be as far off as you think. We'll never gene map these birds so we will never know for sure anyway. Just don't think you can go out and be the next James Turner. The work has already been done for us. Fly what you got and try to reproduce it or make it better. If it don't spin get something that does. If you don't know if your birds really spin go visiting lofts till you see one that does. When you see one spin you'll want it and it won't matter what the birds great,great,great,great grandaddy was. I want to know what is does today not what it's ancestor did 40 years ago or what color it was or how closely it was related to 514. Close the pedigree books while they are flying and watch. It's up there or it's not. If it's not don't worry about it-just go find it somewhere else and get rid of what you had.
|
Ballrollers
1779 posts
Mar 04, 2009
9:56 AM
|
Bravo, Punkin' Man!!!
Cliff
|
spinningdemon
391 posts
Mar 04, 2009
5:15 PM
|
Punkin man, Great post! Yours to Cliff. And sunflower it takes a great man to appologize. I to get tired of the color debate it reminds me of the dual purpose birds of the 70-80's Like I have said before the hobby is way to small. We need to incourage not discourage.
----------
David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.intheair.ning.com
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
|
TheGame
530 posts
Mar 04, 2009
5:35 PM
|
I am relaxed Katcher lol. I wasn't yelling at your anything. I was just curious to know what you label your pigeons if the colored ones are cute.
|