Oldfart
884 posts
Mar 16, 2009
11:58 AM
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Hey All, I have not posted for awhile so I thought I would catch up on how my birds from Tony's Ruby's are coming along. I will start from the beginning with my experiences.
The first year I started with two pair of Ruby's from Tony. I did not fly them but breed from them when they were old enough. I had some trouble getting enough young birds to form a proper kit at one time. With a late start and only two pair, I could see potential but had nothing I considered outstanding.I purchased an additional pair from Tony and armed with the best of each sex to put back on their parents I went into my second breeding season.With more breeders I was able to get more young into the kit box and had tighter kitting and better performance overall. The third season I started to see much better performance from my birds and in better numbers. But, I also started to realize the best were all from one pair. Not to say they were the only ones spinning or kitting but they were the best. I made a hard decesion and discarded all but one bird that was closely related to this pair but not exactly the same. All I have now are the prodgy from one pair of birds, and the prodgy from a mating of the same cock and the hen I saved for an eventual outcross.
SO...How are they? The pair I will term my foundation produce consistently and I now have six outstanding cock's from this pair and another from a first generation cock I raised from this pair. They a frequent (two times a min.)fast, tight and of varying depths. The deepest is in the thirty to thirty five foot range with the occasional deeper
spin. Most are in the twenty foot range. I have noticed that the cock's are the more consistent and deeper, but the hens do not lack in quality. I am very pleased with my birds and look forward to this years young bird crop. As an after thought, they are easy to manage, even tempered in the loft or kit box they are well suited for the breeder who has a minimum of time and effort to invest. I would and do recommend Tony's Ruby's.
Thom
Last Edited by on Mar 16, 2009 12:01 PM
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fhtfire
1878 posts
Mar 16, 2009
12:13 PM
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Thom,
I have found that the Cocks are deeper too....my two Ruby Cocks in my stock loft were around 40'...
Are you going to the convention..we are hosting it in Sacramento..would love to meet a fellow smoke eater!!
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Scott
1884 posts
Mar 16, 2009
12:41 PM
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There you go, that is how you build a proper stud instead of constantly chasing pigeons.
(But, I also started to realize the best were all from one pair. Not to say they were the only ones spinning or kitting but they were the best. I made a hard decesion and discarded all but one bird that was closely related to this pair but not exactly the same. All I have now are the prodgy from one pair of birds, and the prodgy from a mating of the same cock and the hen I saved for an eventual outcross.)
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 16, 2009 8:34 PM
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Oldfart
885 posts
Mar 16, 2009
12:42 PM
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Hey Paul, I wish I could! It's been a long time since I was able to visit with a bunch of roller people. I'm having fun with my birds and I am truly looking forward to this years crop. I also have noticed they improve with age. They are deeper and tighter into their second and third year.
I won't try to tell you to back off, so be as careful as you can and when it's only property, go home in one peice!
Thom
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Oldfart
886 posts
Mar 16, 2009
12:45 PM
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Hey Scott, I learned some of that from your posts!
Thanks, Thom
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
188 posts
Mar 16, 2009
4:54 PM
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Thom good to here from you again. JDA
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Oldfart
888 posts
Mar 16, 2009
5:33 PM
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JDA, Thank you it's good to be back!
Thom
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donnie james
339 posts
Mar 17, 2009
8:20 PM
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hay thom i'm very glad that tony's ruby's are working out for you and thanks for the up date..........donny james
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gotspin7
2328 posts
Mar 18, 2009
6:09 AM
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Oldfart, glad to see you are still enjoying your birds.
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Sal Ortiz
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winwardrollers
194 posts
Mar 18, 2009
6:48 AM
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Oldfart
That's some smart breeding there..good luck in the future.
It's funny how the first thing breeders want to do is... create their own family ...so they cross breed right from the get-go.
You have already started your own line of Rudy's by selecting the best and then working with a tight gene pool. It won't be long and Tony my want some of your creation..lol
bwinward
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Oldfart
890 posts
Mar 18, 2009
10:20 AM
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Hey All, Donny, Portsmouth is not the same without you! Take Care.
Sal, I'm die hard hooked, I've had several different family's over the course of my life but I really like Tony's Ruby's, and with retirement there is time!
winwardrollers, thanks but I'm just following lessons learned by smarter people then me. Tony started me off right and if the results are good then a large part of the credit belongs to him, not to say I can't still mess it up!Truth is I'm not knowledgeable enough to handle all the variances that would occur with any outside blood brought into the family. The safest way for me is to breed my separate but almost identical blood line. Then each branch of the tree can benefit the other.
Thanks to all.
Thom
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Newbie 08
131 posts
Mar 18, 2009
1:35 PM
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so glad to see the update on the Ruby's.I have 12 of 14 differents 2008 squeakers 6 hens 6 cocks I purchased from Tony from August,September, Novemeber and the last 3 in December. I was able to settle and fly 6 of them from August to end of October and was really impressed with these birds. Unfortunately before I was able to lock down I lost 2 to BOP. I did notice that the cocks were deeper than the hens the 4 I have left from flying is 3 cocks and a hen. I still have eight that I have not been able to fly because I've been locked down since the first week in Novemeber. At this point I think I'm just going to breed these eight out next year and fly the young. I'm afraid I waited to late to train them to kit being that there at least 6 months old now? what do you guys think is it too late to fly them. If so it's ok they are the main birds I will build my family around. I have 8 other birds that come from Ray Sanchez line that were squeaker I purchased in July of last year and flew as a kit with my Ruby's. These Birds came from a guy who call his birds RK pairs which turned out to be some nice birds as well. I have some young off of them that I will be flying in April. Can't wait to work these Ruby's tho because from what i experience from the 6 i was able to fly when they were pretty young and only flew them for 3 months they were pretty much everything I'm looking for in a performance birds and they are very easy to handle! Thanks for all the input guys and have a great time flying your birds!!!
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~~~~~~Butch
Last Edited by on Mar 18, 2009 7:55 PM
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Oldfart
894 posts
Mar 18, 2009
2:05 PM
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Butch, I don't think it's too late, but why? I would just breed them and fly out their young. I know most may not agree with me but your investment is worth more then feed for the B.O.P. It might set you back one year to be able to totally evaluate them but the future is what you are after. I have an exceptional young cock I raised from Tony's stock. He made my heart sing every time he flew! I would like nothing more then to fly him, and I will, in a few years but right now he is worth more then my temporary pleasure.
The young I will raise from him are my future as the birds you have left are yours, why risk them? As the lady's say,"a moment on the lips and a lifetime on the hips, or once done, can't be undone!)
Thom
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Newbie 08
135 posts
Mar 18, 2009
2:05 PM
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Old fart do you have any suggestion on feeding our Ruby's? Right now I'm just feeding them the 14%. Last year when I flew them I let them out starving they kit really well always flew for at least 45min. Once they land they would trap in less than 5 minutes then I would feed them straight wheat. What you think ?? I would like your input being that you have the same family of birds and have been working with them longer than I.
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~~~~~~Butch
Last Edited by on Mar 18, 2009 7:57 PM
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Newbie 08
136 posts
Mar 18, 2009
2:15 PM
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I feel you Thom that's my plan breed them not fly them. I have 2 cocks from the first three I purchased that i flew last year that were exceptional. They were squeakers and when I flew them in August-08 it was no more than a couple of days they started to come into the roll. Before I lock them down in Nov. 1 which is a red check Self band #110 is at least 30 feet volocity and spin is so impressive very nice to watch. The other cock Dun beard white flight band #231 20 to 25 feet same volocity and spin. I see the consistancy in these two bird. I will be training a kit to fly for the first time this year the first week in April here in Northern Ca. hopely The BOP are scarce or full off of other birds young. Much as I'd like to fly these two cocks from last year. NO WAY. just don't want to take that chance of losing either of them knowing where they came from and seeing for a short period of 3 months what they were capable of. I'll wait on their young !!!
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~~~~~~Butch
Last Edited by on Mar 18, 2009 2:21 PM
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Newbie 08
137 posts
Mar 18, 2009
2:18 PM
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Thom I like that comment as the lady's say can tell you're a pretty wise spirit!! Your advice is well taken Thanks ~~
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~~~~~~Butch
Last Edited by on Mar 18, 2009 7:57 PM
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Oldfart
895 posts
Mar 18, 2009
3:01 PM
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Butch, I'm not the roller guru, and as far as Ruby's, Tony is, but he is a very busy man! Imagine just cleaning his loft every day! I will answer your question but first I think I need to reintroduce myself. I will start by saying, just because you are old does not necessarily make you wise. I like you and everyone else am on a learning curve, so take anything I might say with a grain of salt(tastes better)! The answer to your question is not as simple as it might seem, first lets talk water. I routinely give my birds in this order,one garlic clove in the fount on day one of any month, vitamin&electrolites the first week, then A.C.V. (one tablespoon per gal) the second week, then Bio Pro the third week, clean water the last week of the month, throw out the garlic, add new clove and start all over. Now as to feed, again not simple, and with explanation. My concept and what I want to accomplish with my birds is this. I want a stud of birds that is not feed dependent, one that will fly consistently with no special feed considerations. I want the birds to be the deciding factor not the feed. In my opinion there is no magic routine that will turn your birds into the whiz kit! Healthy birds selected for their ability to control the spin will fly just because. Just because they love too! Breed only from the birds that preform to your standard, feed them cleanly, change their water daily, (that was DAILY) and you will start to see what you are after. Now what do I feed my birds? Normally, a mix, with some pelleted food added. This helps with the youngsters getting enough nutrition. When I'm trying to peak them, 50% hard wheat and 50% milo, clean water and grit. No big secret, it's in the birds not the feed. Remember, they are your birds and I'm no guru.
Thom
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Newbie 08
139 posts
Mar 18, 2009
3:42 PM
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Thanks Thom I'm pretty much doing this already, using the garlic and then the AVC have used the Bio pro but not as cocnsistently as the garlic and AVC. I have started using pellets a month ago for my young. I've been changing the water once a week being that I have it sitting on a platform inches off the floor in one of those gal watering jugs and it seems to stay pretty clean. I will start changing daily now. As for feeding I keep grit in the loft and when I start to fly them again I had planned to go 50% wheat 50% Milo. Looks like I'm pretty standard operation. Far as wisdom I don't believe in the guru concept everyone is capable of being a guru if they just keep things simple and use the common sense that is as natural as our birds pairing up , mating and rearing young. Problem for most is making things complicated and crediting complication LOL. Book smarts is ok I know several educated fools, streets smarts is primal and needed. Common sense is simple yet so difficult for the massses these days?? So when I said you were wise you proved me right by displaying your wisdom in your last post, by being humble, modest,informative based on experience not what you've been told saying someone else do. Life is simply about experiences that's the only reason were in these bodies learn from experience then grow to the next level of conciousness. As far as being wise because of age make me laugh we all know a few old ignorant fools!!!! Thanks again and Peace be with you!!
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~~~~~~Butch
Last Edited by on Mar 18, 2009 7:45 PM
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Oldfart
896 posts
Mar 18, 2009
4:13 PM
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Hey Butch,I'm sorry to say I did not go and check your profile. I thought you were much younger or I would have changed the temper of my post. Sounds like your approach is much like mine, so I hope your are on the right path! (Smile) I am a backyard-er, I once competed locally with some success, but now I just fly for myself and friends. Not to say that I require any less from my birds or myself! Tony provided the opportunity, what we make of it is our responsibility. I wish the best for you and yours, feel free to email me at anytime if I can be of help.
Thom
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Newbie 08
141 posts
Mar 18, 2009
7:48 PM
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never be sorry for anything especially when it's a learning experience in which it is mostly when we are sorry. At the same time never assume anything, I'm a backyard-er too. never competed but plan to one day. I will stay in touch knowing that I've met another friend !Stay up~~~~ Peace be with you and yours
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~~~~~~Butch
Last Edited by on Mar 18, 2009 8:06 PM
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toughrollers
70 posts
Mar 18, 2009
8:20 PM
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hi thom ,i also have ruby blood lines,aprox 16 pairs at this moment , and 16 pairs of montys lines.i do agree with you that rubys lines are great birds , i also have found that the cock birds spin deeper, then again the hens are fantastic spiners as welli live in austra;ia ,and not many people have rubys lines here. only a few.lots of flyers have montys or masons or bijker lines,take care thom
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cr250
226 posts
Mar 18, 2009
8:57 PM
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Hi Thom, I have Rubys too.I am about 3 years behind you.This is my first year breeding them.I have 12 pair and I am going to fly out the young and see what pairs produce the best.Then take it from there.I am putting a couple of Richard Apadoca's birds in them too.They are part of the same Family.I will let everyone know how they do.
Brian
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Oldfart
904 posts
Mar 19, 2009
10:18 AM
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Hey All,
Butch, Friends!!
toughrollers, I hope your Ruby's do as well as mine. Outside of the regular management routine, cull hard!
Brian, I think you will enjoy them, I've found they are easy to manage in the loft and in the kit box. Keep me up to speed on your progress and never hesitate to email me, I'm retired!
The email part goes for all!
Thom
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Pararoller
56 posts
Mar 19, 2009
12:50 PM
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Oldfart nice name just as mine good to hear ur enjoying life thats how it should be and learn take care pararolller
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Oldfart
908 posts
Mar 19, 2009
1:57 PM
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pararoller, rollers will extend life and make it much more enjoyable! Not scientific, but I think true! (Smile) Thom
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Pararoller
59 posts
Mar 19, 2009
2:49 PM
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true thom i do know that for sure cause i plaralyzed fromthe waist down and takes 600 mg oxycodone every 4 hours as needed and others meds 1700 mg every day and since i got into rollers i'm take less drug and was able to forget me pain others will probably say i crazy but it true for me with birds as a good theraphy enjoy ur birds
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Oldfart
909 posts
Mar 19, 2009
3:55 PM
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Nicky, I hope having birds helps. I have it on good authority that you belong in my "A" team. Consider it done.
Thom
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cr250
229 posts
Mar 19, 2009
5:11 PM
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Thanks Thom, I will let you know how they are doing?
Brian
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