tou2son
138 posts
Mar 18, 2009
10:45 AM
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Say Guys and Girls,
This is my first year starting with just rollers. How am i suppose to train my first kit birds? Right now i have them come out and they just kinda fiddle around on the roof. It's been about a week. Should i start tossing them up in the air now or when? These birds are young 3 months only(apparently all my older birds are breeding and since i moved i haven't settle my old birds.) Any suggestions? Thanks!!
tou2son
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Oldfart
891 posts
Mar 18, 2009
11:21 AM
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tou2son, I would not throw them or flag them. All that will do is teach them bad habits, like tree sitting or sitting on roofs other then your kit box.Soon they will start to take short hops around your yard and then farther out and back to the kit box. I do not allow mine to languish on the kit box roof, they go out hungry and after twenty minutes I rattle a can with some feed in it and start training them to the trap. When all are in I will give some small amount of feed but not a full ration, then I repeat the exercise later in the day. After a short while they will trap when you rattle the can. As they develop they will fly and then trap as soon as you rattle the can, not when they please. How long they fly and even to how high they fly can all be controlled by the feed. Almost without exception the biggest mistake beginners make is in over feeding! A hard working kit bird will only require a small amount of food. This is my way, and many will disagree but it works for me. I place around two tablespoons of food per bird in the feed pan, I then allow them to eat all they can hold until the first bird goes to water. When that happens, I pull the feed. I do however watch them very closely and any that feel light I will place in a separate box and give them extra feed until I sure they have had enough. This is in the training stage only. Kit training is a different thing. I hope this helps but listen to what everyone has to say and then decide for yourself, they are your birds after all!
Thom
Last Edited by on Mar 18, 2009 11:26 AM
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tou2son
140 posts
Mar 18, 2009
11:48 AM
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Thanks Thom,
Right now i notice that they are are going off a little at a time. But i have one bird that just keeps going in the trap. As soon as she comes out she flys up to the roof and straight back into the kit. What would you recommend for that situation. She won't fly around with the rest or stay out. She just flys out and into the box again. i know that's what i want but at the same time how will she know my place if she's not willing to sit out and look around her surroundings?
touson
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Oldfart
892 posts
Mar 18, 2009
12:03 PM
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tou2son, I think I would lock the traps until the kit is back, or until the twenty minutes are up. The kitting instinct is one of the traits you need to develop in your birds. If this bird will not change or learn it is part of the kit, then....but I think it will start to behave. I still would not flag or chase it off of the kit box roof. I only flag an already homed kit if they start shorting their fly times and not then if they are heavy in the moult.
Again, this is the way I do things and is not the only way, you will learn what works best for you by trial and error.
Thom
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tou2son
141 posts
Mar 18, 2009
12:50 PM
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Thanks Thom,
I understand what you mean. I'll do what i can with them. I wasn't sure if i should start flagging..but what you say makes sense. They haven't homed really good yet...so yeah Thanks SO MUCH!!
tou2son
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Oldfart
893 posts
Mar 18, 2009
1:33 PM
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tou2son, You are most welcome. Let me know,(us, being the list) how it worked out for you.
Thom
Last Edited by on Mar 18, 2009 1:34 PM
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Square
676 posts
Mar 18, 2009
3:29 PM
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Tou2son, great pionts, If its in the birds to fly then they will. it is easy to messup young birds with flagging/scaring them. The control is in the feeding just giveum time and assure they are properly homed, then you can get alittle more agressive. Young birds need alot more attention and there is a fine line between not feeding enough to properly develope,, thats just for me and my program, i have spoiled birds by getting to agressive on the feeding and the birds had plenty of roll but not enough muscle, my fault because I wasnt feeding properly.. Gotta find out what works for your birds...Good luck.
Square
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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gabe454
1566 posts
Mar 18, 2009
4:23 PM
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Hey Tou2son i dont see anything wrong with flagging young when you know they ready to fly.I have always flagged my birds when they are young if not your going to have lazy birds sitting on your roof also make sure when you start flagging them you dont feed a day before just go with what you think is right for you!
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GABE
454 LOFT
L.P.R.C
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Mount Airy Lofts
877 posts
Mar 18, 2009
4:56 PM
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When I get birds that are slow to take off on their own, I usually start dropping their weight a little with Barely. It tricks them on being full but also thins them out. The lighter they are, they easier they are to a lift.
I surely don't have problems with my birds taking to the air then again, my birds are harder to keep down as well once they do - natural strong fliers.
Give them time, a week is too short of a time to see much from them besides testing their wings.
Thor
P.S. Maybe you should consider not feeding them right away or go to feeding them in the evenings.
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It's all about the friends we make :)
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tou2son
142 posts
Mar 18, 2009
6:49 PM
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i will tell you guys what i have been doing so far. Please correct me in any way if you guys see me do something incorrectly. i open the front of the kit and put a cage in front so that they can come out and get some good fresh air (usually from 1p.m to 3p.m) at around 3p.m i fly them. They usually just fly up about tree height no higher and come right back down. Once they land, all they want to do is trap in. How can i avoid them to trapping in so quickly? I don't want to flag them yet because they haven't flown any higher. And usually the wind would scared them to fly any higher, but whenever they try to trap in i will catch them and lightly toss them up again to work their wings. So what you guys think so far? and once i trap them i shake a can of food and whistle and open up the trap.
Tou2son
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Electric-man
2266 posts
Mar 18, 2009
9:22 PM
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You might try caging them up and walking out 50' or so and letting them out. Then each day, double the distance! At least try it with the knucklehead that wants to go straight back to the kitbox and trap!
I have 12 YBs that are being a bit slow to get going, but I don't want to flag them yet myself! I'm not sure the sharks are gone and they are getting more brave on their own each day! So I will give them a few days more!
If you do flag them, don't do it on a windy day!
Been there, done that!
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Val
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2713 posts
Mar 18, 2009
10:03 PM
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Tou I think your mistake is letting them hang out for some good fresh air then flying them .I never let my birds see the outside if they going to fly that day first I fly them .then I let them get their time to what ever .if you do it this way fly first they will have energy store up and want to go out for a fly.. what I advise you on is keep them lock in and then chase out the kit box for their fly ..when one bird comes down first I let him never flag him or he will go else where then wait for the birds to get close circling around him and flag him one time fast so he can under stand that he must comes down with the team and that's the only time he can come down and trap in to eat as a reward.. I had two that would do that come down fast but I didn't flag them I let them hang on top until the team came around and right back up I send them cause maybe they didn't have the endurance to stay up with the other birds. they have to learn what you want from them, that you are the kit master and at the same time you have to know what is wrong with them..listen to them they will tell you ..good luck...
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Ralph.
miss opportunity are the curse of potential well if opportunity is not knocking you build the door...
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Oldfart
902 posts
Mar 19, 2009
9:49 AM
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tou2son, You can't go wrong listening to Val, and Ralph. Sometimes I take them when they are barely able to fly and gently toss them toward the kit box just as the kit starts to land. I think it helps them to learn were the box is and that they are part of the kit.
Thom
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tou2son
143 posts
Mar 20, 2009
1:07 PM
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Hey thanks guys,
I wasn't too sure about letting them sit out to get fresh air or not. i'll try not to do that again, and see what happens next. Right now i am tryin to teach them to come in only when i whistle and shake a can of food. They usually just sit on the roof till i whistle and shake, before they know that the bobs will be open for them to come in. Is that a smart move?
touson
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Electric-man
2268 posts
Mar 20, 2009
2:38 PM
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I would agree with that. I don't open my trap until I whistle at them! If one comes in early, others usually want to follow.
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Val
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2725 posts
Mar 20, 2009
9:22 PM
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Tou Yes that is a smart move, these birds should not be flying unless they know what the whistle or shake of a can means .they have to go through stages first .
.first week getting familiar with the kit box and that you are the person that feed them they will be depended on you .2nd week outside on a cage knowing there surrounding in and out.3th week left out all day until you call them in learning to trap on command 4th week training begins ..free fly no cage on top.. end of week get them up for a couple of minutes till they build up from there..but unless these birds understand what the feed call is and trapping.. in no way they should be flying. with these stages you can't go wrong ..good luck...
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Ralph.
miss opportunity are the curse of potential well if opportunity is not knocking you build the door...
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RodSD
202 posts
Mar 20, 2009
11:49 PM
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Touson's problem seems food related. Either the birds are too hungry that they don't have energy to fly and comes down to eat or they are too fat/overfeed that they are to o heavy to fly.
The one bird that doesn't kit may not be getting enough food (hence weak).
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Windjammer Loft
746 posts
Mar 21, 2009
5:26 AM
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Tou.......I would have to agree with RodSDits sounds like a hunger problem. I have had young birds do the exact thing. As soon as I let all of them out. One bird heads directly for the traps. Ultimately "she" was light, not getting enough feed,always the first one to trap.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Mar 21, 2009 5:27 AM
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tou2son
148 posts
Mar 23, 2009
7:03 PM
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Hey guys,
Well it's not that she's not getting enough food. i always make sure to feel them when they are done eating to see how full their crop's are. I do however let them eat as much as they can do to the fact that they are still young birds. For some reason the birds aren't flying any higher. I haven't start flagging because i still believe they aren't home really good yet. Any suggestions to get them flying higher?
tou2son
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