bigwilly
884 posts
Mar 19, 2009
11:18 PM
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In regards to the Norm Reed birds, who on this site flys or have this line of birds in your breeding program. What do you like and dislike about them?
I like that they come in early, they knott up for you at will, fast, kit good, and feel like a ball of muscle in your hand. You can feel the power when you handle them.
What I dislike is that I dont have enough of them because Ed has them all. Trust me.
BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
Last Edited by on Mar 19, 2009 11:20 PM
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kcfirl
569 posts
Mar 20, 2009
10:26 AM
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hi Will,
who is ed?
Thanks,
Ken
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Ldogxxx
20 posts
Mar 20, 2009
10:58 AM
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I am only speaking of what I had and what I have seen, so please do not be offended if you are a breeder of this strain. In my experience the positives of this strain are that they kit well, have a very good work rate, the roll is 30-40 ft., come in at 6 months, show good style, fly low and are great for competition. The negatives are that they are a larger bird then I like, are a little soft in the roll for my taste and I have had more rolldowns than I would like.
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"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the
illusion of knowledge."
Bayani
EZ Rollers (www.wacadoo.com)
B-Square Lofts
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bigwilly
885 posts
Mar 20, 2009
8:37 PM
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Wow. I thought way more people was working with ths strain. Shows how much I know
Hey Ken hope all is well. Ed is a friend of mine that works with the Norm birds also
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
Last Edited by on Mar 20, 2009 8:41 PM
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bigwilly
886 posts
Mar 20, 2009
8:43 PM
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No roll downs no spin in your loft. U agree?
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
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bigwilly
888 posts
Mar 20, 2009
9:25 PM
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Hey Bayani. Did you buy the birds from Norm Himself and picked them out of the air as I did, or did you get them from another source? Just curious.
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
Last Edited by on Mar 20, 2009 9:25 PM
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winwardrollers
195 posts
Mar 20, 2009
9:47 PM
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bigwilly
I have seen great Norm Reed birds..for the roll. Great speed, good style.
The problem I noticed is that the kitting was less than desirable.
It all comes down to ..your selection.. from here on out.
I was impressed enough with the speed and style that I figured I would give them a try..don't have much of the Reed blood any more.. breed away from it.
Bwinward
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Scott
1899 posts
Mar 20, 2009
9:53 PM
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Absoluty "NOT" true Will.
(No roll downs no spin in your loft. U agree? )
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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fhtfire
1881 posts
Mar 20, 2009
10:08 PM
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Big Willy,
On the roll down thing...I think it is how many...I have a couple every year....I think more then that out 0f 75 birds is to much heat in the oven...and I would breed for more stability....you will always have a hot one...or two....but....I had two last year and the year before that I only had one...when i say roll down...I am not talking about a bump hear or there...I am talking about a TOTAL SHORT CURCUIT>>...LOL...No matter what they roll down.
HEy...I tried to call you and your number would not work...I just emailed you...email me back with your number...
Are you flying in the W.C....get a payment to Scott C ASAP..
rock and ROLL
Paul
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fhtfire
1882 posts
Mar 20, 2009
10:10 PM
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Oh,.,,,I believe I have some Reed blood in my Birds on the Mort Side....not a lot...but a little.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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bigwilly
889 posts
Mar 20, 2009
10:26 PM
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Hey Scott. I am not saying breed from roll downs and of course I want my birds to be stable. However, I believe any family worth working with will have a fair share of roll downs. I have visited alot of top fliers and 75% of them had a bird or two come down. All the way down. I am not speaking of bumping because thats a another story. I have never had the opportunity to visit your loft yet and I know I will soon. I know you have roll. My question to u is do you ever have a roll down or two, and do you feel that you have roll in your loft?
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
Last Edited by on Mar 20, 2009 10:50 PM
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bigwilly
890 posts
Mar 20, 2009
10:33 PM
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Hey Winwardrollers. U said that "the kitting was less desireable" My question to u is ,have u ever been to Norms house and watch his birds? I can almost guarantee that you have not ever visited his loft. With all do respect sir. I am not getting smart with u o.k.
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
Last Edited by on Mar 20, 2009 10:34 PM
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Scott
1900 posts
Mar 21, 2009
12:42 AM
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Will, a rolldown is simply a bird that can't mentaly or physicaly handle the amount of roll impulse that it has, that impulse can even be less than many stable birds but more than a mentaly weak bird can take.
This "have to breed rolldowns" is a falacy by those that don't understand the birds or what makes them tick.
Scott
(I have visited alot of top fliers and 75% of them had a bird or two come down.)
I suggest that you change your standard on what a top flyer/breeder is Will , I have visited and or judged many of the top flyers accross the country and can't ever remember seeing what you described above.
It would be embarassing to say the least to have that happen, as for myself I havn't bred a true rolldown in a few years,I did have one that was close to it though.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 21, 2009 12:44 AM
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winwardrollers
196 posts
Mar 21, 2009
7:28 AM
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Bigwilly
You have to realize I am talking about birds that someone got from Norm Reed directly then breed them for a few years.
They had super speed and roll style he just had problems with kitting. I watched the birds for years always impressed... just didn't care much for the kitting. Kitting was the very reason this individual got rid of the birds. My guess it was this individuals selection for breeders that was getting him in trouble.
If you select for roll/style first and formost and don't weigh in.. other factors.. that determine the total package of a roller...you end up with ..like in his case super spinners that are nonkitting birds.
You can have Norm Reed Birds but it getts down to what I stated in my post above....
"It all comes down to ..your selection.. from here on out."
So if you ask someone how they like the Norm Reed birds you will get varing responses.
I was watching A.. pepperheaded hen.. at this Breeders home one day rolling with his new " " birds and this full Norm Reed hen was.. so so.. much faster. That hen I wanted.. I believe that Mort. was able to use her for a breeder not sure what he got out of her.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Mar 21, 2009 7:31 AM
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bigwilly
892 posts
Mar 21, 2009
7:42 AM
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Hey Scott a true rolldown or a rolldown is still a roll down.
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
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Ldogxxx
21 posts
Mar 21, 2009
11:00 AM
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"Hey Bayani. Did you buy the birds from Norm Himself and picked them out of the air as I did, or did you get them from another source? Just curious." Big Willy
Willy - I did not buy the birds from Norm himself, I borrowed them. This was about 4 years ago. These birds were the immediate (F1) offspring. With the negative issues I posted earlier, and because I had heard a lot of good things about them, I had to find out a little more. The owner did not have pedigrees but I found out who originally purchased them. This person went to Norms house in the mid 90's I believe and bought them. He told me that what I was seeing is true but it was not the reason he got rid of them. He got out of birds for awhile but is now back with a different strain. I know for sure that there are many success stories with this strain. I know others who do fly them and do well. Jerry Higgins used them to develop his strain. They just did not work out for me.
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"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the
illusion of knowledge."
Bayani
EZ Rollers (www.wacadoo.com)
B-Square Lofts
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JMUrbon
674 posts
Mar 21, 2009
2:57 PM
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A roll down is just that.A ROLL DOWN. Any breeder worth his salt and with any honesty will tell you that they get one once in a while. Like Paul stated earlier it is the number of roll downs that would concern me.
Scott I would certainly hope that you wouldn't see a roll down on any kits you were judging. That kind of stuff should be eliminated from the loft as it shows up. Never to make it into a competition team. I can remember years ago standing next to a very reputable judge whom is probably the most well known master flier in California and writing down scores for him when a bird rolled down from a kit he was judging. His comment to me was " we all breed them but they should never be seen on fly day". That has always been my opinion and I doubt it will change any time soon.
Willie, My experiens with the Norm Reed birds is all second hand as I personally have not worked with them but those that I know said the roll was as good as any with good depth. The only complaint I have heard was they were a bit on the unstable side. I personally believe like Brad said that all comes down to how you select them. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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Scott
1901 posts
Mar 21, 2009
5:58 PM
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Your right Joe, it does happen, but if it is more than a once in a while fluke there is a problem.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 21, 2009 5:59 PM
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JMUrbon
675 posts
Mar 21, 2009
7:22 PM
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That is correct Scott. Birds that are stable and have the ability to hold it together year after year are what we should be stocking. Not one year wonders that have yet to prove themselves out. That is were a breeder gets blindsided by all of the rolldowns and stiffs. But like I said earkier evry loft wil get the occasional roll down. Its just a matter of if they will admit it or not. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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fhtfire
1886 posts
Mar 21, 2009
8:24 PM
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i admit it...LOL!!! I have gotten a couple hear and there....in 06 I did not have one...and 05 I think I had one....07 I think I had two..and 08 I had one....True roll downs...not just a bumper here and there...but a true roll down.....in 07 I tried a father daughter mating and two of the 6 out of that pair rolled down....
rock and ROLL
Paul
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bigwilly
894 posts
Mar 21, 2009
10:54 PM
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Scott said
"I suggest that you change your standard on what a top flyer/breeder is Will , I have visited and or judged many of the top flyers accross the country and can't ever remember seeing what you described above.
It would be embarassing to say the least to have that happen, as for myself I havn't bred a true rolldown in a few years,I did have one that was close to it though"
Will Says "LOL"
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
Last Edited by on Mar 21, 2009 10:56 PM
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bigwilly
895 posts
Mar 21, 2009
10:54 PM
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With all do respect Scott
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
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Scott
1903 posts
Mar 22, 2009
7:59 AM
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Will, there is more to these birds than what appears on the surface,having to have a "fair share" of rolldowns and plenty of roll is a fallacy and shallow, this is a complicated breed to say the least.
And in all honesty I have little respect for those type of breeders where the birds are concerned and it honestly pisses me off when they pass off that bunk and is nothing short of stupidity,any bonehead can breed pigeons like that.
I am NOT refering that remark to you but to whoever passed or passes that kind of shallow knowlegde of the breed off,I was just giving you something to think about is all,good luck.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 22, 2009 8:37 AM
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JMUrbon
676 posts
Mar 22, 2009
9:05 AM
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Scott since you are becomming the next self proclaimed roller profit. Maybe I should just forget everything I have learned over the last 30 years and just ask for your roller bible. Wills original thread had nothing to do with somebody trying to breed birds of that type. More on the lines of if he gets an occasional rolldown should it concern him or is it the norm.
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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bigwilly
896 posts
Mar 22, 2009
9:07 AM
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Hey Scott. I feel that you took what I was trying to say totally out of context. What I was saying is that any person breeding competiton birds will have birds that will roll down including you. I am not saying that I breed birds to roll down. I dont but it does happen. In addition, I still believe if you dont have birds that come down on OCCASION you dont have no roll in your loft. I will leave at this and good luck to you to buddy.
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
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Scott
1906 posts
Mar 22, 2009
9:50 AM
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Joe, there is a world of difference between a "fair" amount and the occational fluke, I doubt that you and I are that far apart on this , you get so few that it isn't worth mention to company, am I correct ? when was the last time that you had one or two come down with company ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Scott
1907 posts
Mar 22, 2009
9:52 AM
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Big Will, from the type of birds that you are asking about, I would say that my context was correct ,many excuse out those type of birds by useing the " must have afair amount of rolldownd mentality", no one breeds for them, but nor should it be more than a fluke.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 22, 2009 9:57 AM
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bigwilly
897 posts
Mar 22, 2009
10:19 AM
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" We all breed them but they should never be seen on fly day" And I am done with this thread
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
Last Edited by on Mar 22, 2009 10:20 AM
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Scott
1908 posts
Mar 22, 2009
11:01 AM
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My goal is to never see them as they have nothing to do with having plenty of roll.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Mar 22, 2009 11:03 AM
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gotspin7
2340 posts
Mar 22, 2009
8:08 PM
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BigWilly, I get a 1 or 2 a year. Hey no big deal, just remove them when you get them and you move forward with your program. Good luck...
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Sal Ortiz
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