Leo
Member
100 posts
Apr 18, 2009
8:30 AM
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!!!Scott, I meant that last statement in the kindest way !I guess i should have added lol,so you would understand! AS far as the post i simply wanted to show the change in the eye in 1 yr,and had brothers to compare with,,I thought there was some value in these findings,As far as the Pensom statement!READ .0221..post ..you never "read it" you just jump in and tell us how great your Ballbearing Rollers are with NO concideration for any one else ! I will never understand the post you just wrote,,, I knew that,the first year i flew my first kit in the 50s You write this krap over and over and over again, SO I WILL HELP YOU HERE !!!You are the greatest roller breeder of all times,You are the Mesiah! You have the greatest Ball Bearing Rollers known to man! many will follow in your footsteps forever!Through several yrs of reading all your posts and overbearing attitude,and answers,, you have NEVER,EVER, asked anybody ONE "QUESTION"!! NOT ONCE!!! now what does that tell you???? It tells me YOU KNOW IT ALL! and you believe it..Youre like a Piss Ant at a Picnic,,got your nose stuck every where! SOME of these guys are NOT comp flyers ,,,And we hope you can win soon as possible,so you can "strut around with your stogie, and a $3.oo trophy,beating your chest"..I Hope there is room on this site that Tony has set up for comp guys, an breeders, an back yard flyers to all talk to each other...back off!
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
239 posts
Apr 18, 2009
8:49 AM
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Leo You hit the nail on his head with that, Good Job.( :
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2869 posts
Apr 18, 2009
9:34 AM
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Leo I'm open minded that's something to think about.we can find answers by knowing if the guys who are getting these birds with blood in their eyes are these birds coming from early developers ..in the same token birds that roll with wings out or one wing out could these birds well some not all be lacking muscle developing from being wean on nothing but wheat and milo instead of a good protien mix which helps with good muscle developing .protien builds muscle right?something to think about. ----------
Ralph.
The greatest use of your life is so you live your life so that the use of your life will outlive your life, In other words what you going to leave behind legacy or Dust....
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Leo
Member
101 posts
Apr 18, 2009
12:44 PM
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I am sure there are many things that can cause this problem,Iwas in hopes we could kinda put our heads together and get a few ideas working!AS far as feed ive pulled every trick known to man with feed ,I have a 50 lb bag of canadian or yellow peas that are always added to their rations,as they are high in protien, I am retiring from showing quarter horses,so i know what protien means to muscle,I have also strained grains and tested my birds on certain grains,I recently discovered that one grain I fed caused the birds to fly so close together that you could cover them with a postage stamp! The second day the same,then bad weather fouled the third day which was the most important day to me, so i will start over again with a new kit this yr,
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Alohazona
611 posts
Apr 18, 2009
12:47 PM
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Norm,
I don't have alot of experience with this blood in the eye thing,but I have come to some conclusions that have put it to rest as it stands in my loft to this day.
Rollers go through lot's of developMENTAL stages.Breaking down all the things that happen during these stages can fill several pages.Then timeing those faults or attributes under headings such as conditioning,type of feed,amount of feed,weather conditions,change in season,air viscosity,and of course physical and mental strengths and weaknesses.
To sum up my response,because most of us do not have a degree in genetics,all we can really do is apply our common sense.My finding through this application is that if blood in the eye is due to genetics or heredity,whether dominant or recessive it would be in THE COMMON MENTION OF FANCIERS,like a rolldown or a stiff.I actually think that crests and muffs are talked about more as a dominant or recessive traits ,genetically speaking.Having said that,in my way of thinking it weighs more in favor of an enviromental factor,rather than a genetic factor.
I could be wrong in my assumptions,knowing that at any point an Avian,M.D. could pop on here and come up with a medical or genetic reference to blood in the eye.It is the smallest of factors in my loft,and if is proved or disproved would not weigh heavily on my day to day decisions of selection.
Norm,I was watching my young bird kit yesterday of about 30 birds,there must have been 5 to 10 instances of birds rolling into each other,of course they are young,about the equivalant of 8 and 10 year old children.No blood in the eye,but maybe some scrapes and bruises under their fedders,LOL....Aloha,Todd
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
380 posts
Apr 18, 2009
1:29 PM
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Leo,
What grain caused them to fly tighter? I have notice that since I added safflower to my A Team's wheat/milo mix they seem to be kitting tighter.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Scott
2051 posts
Apr 18, 2009
2:09 PM
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Yea, cull them and move on, it aint rocket science
(I am sure there are many things that can cause this problem,Iwas in hopes we could kinda put our heads together and get a few ideas working!)
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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j .wanless
735 posts
Apr 18, 2009
2:15 PM
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hi all
scott you certainly have ways with words as we say lol
but i must agree.it is obvious a fault + all faults should be eradicated.
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Leo
Member
102 posts
Apr 18, 2009
3:48 PM
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OK! Scott you are still the great WANNABE,so now tell us how you came to know its a FAULT???your the great know it all ,lets hear it?! ( I bet you cant)your all..AIR...LOL, AND I KNOW IT! and you know I KNOW IT...LOL..TELL US..please we dont want to know about the birds or how great you are JUST FACTS FOR A CHANGE.
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
383 posts
Apr 18, 2009
4:56 PM
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Unless someone can present some scientific evidence to the contrary, I believe it is a genetic fault and would not use such a bird in a breeding program. Why are we shouting again Leo. Chill brother, it isn't worth getting all worked up over.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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katyroller
373 posts
Apr 18, 2009
7:17 PM
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Yang, "Well today I flew the bird that had blood in the eye and it rolled when it flew out of the kitbox and hit the ground. Was about 3 feet off the ground only. Bumper I guess." I would say that the cause of the blood in the eye was that the bird hit something coming out of the kitbox. Why did the bird bump? You need to look at your management practices before you write the bird of as a cull. Be careful what advice you take because there are those that only comprehend what they want to hear.
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winwardrollers
225 posts
Apr 18, 2009
9:36 PM
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Leo
I have young birds that will roll as hard as they ever will that are 6 to 8 months old.... and do not see a coralation with age and blood in the eye.
bwinward
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0221
194 posts
Apr 18, 2009
9:40 PM
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Katyroller, What is your advice?
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katyroller
375 posts
Apr 18, 2009
10:18 PM
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0221- The first thing I would do is give the bird rest and extra feed.
yang- The young birds that get the blood in the eye, is this a one time thing when they first start to come into the roll? If it is, I wouldn't worry about it. If it continues, then I would have to look at culling the two cocks, the hen and ALL offspring bred by them. I hear everyone saying cull the birds with the bloody eyes but they are forgetting about the nestmates that would also carry the weak gene.
Last Edited by on Apr 18, 2009 10:25 PM
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j .wanless
736 posts
Apr 19, 2009
5:52 AM
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hi all
im no vet or dont pretend to know all about rollers .but i do know a great deal about them as ive had them over 40 year,ive also bred lots of birds that have rolled blood in thier eyes a few years back but not now.i also know that it is only rollers that do this there for it as to be a defect in the roller breed.like the roll down or the crest.i also fly dewlaps that dive at unbelievable speed + you never get these birds bleeding in thier eyes.so like i said all though i believe its a fault only in the rollers .
it is possible to breed it out of them as i have done by selective breeding .i have flown birds that have had blood in thier eyes + it as never come back again .but i would not breed off these birds there for lessoning the chance of breeding it again.
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0221
196 posts
Apr 19, 2009
6:10 AM
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John, Graham Dexter and Les Bezance will be happy to here that You deam they're pigeons with crest a fault and compare it to blood in the eye. I don't understand the conection.
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j .wanless
737 posts
Apr 19, 2009
6:52 AM
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hi 0221
pigeons with crests+ have weak eye vessels are faults + thats a fact + ive spoken to graham + les about both + they both agree that they are faults .graham hates crested rollers but he started with birds that came from a lenny harris + thats where grahams crests came from.as did another fancier named frank pickles who passed away years ago.so a friend of mine peter harper 92 w/c winner got franks birds + he gets crests from time to time + he too hates them .les graham or peter will never put birds that breed crests or birds that breed youngsters that bust thier eyes together as none of us do like i said they are all faults in rollers as is rolldowns.
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0221
197 posts
Apr 19, 2009
7:08 AM
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I just did'nt think they would enjoy hearing it. Both Chaps, pretty set in they're ways.I know at one time they both had them. I did'nt see any at Peters.
Last Edited by on Apr 19, 2009 7:10 AM
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Norm_Knox
311 posts
Apr 19, 2009
7:58 PM
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Todd I think you have a valid point there.
(in my way of thinking it weighs more in favor of an enviromental factor,rather than a genetic factor.)
It just makes more sence. Oh and it kills me to see how some people are SO quick to condemn birds.
Thanks Todd,
Norm
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N/A Loft
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gotspin7
2375 posts
Apr 20, 2009
4:23 AM
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Norm, I gave mine quite some time to rest and then they would be re-flown a month later to see if it was just a one time deal, with these particular birds at the time it was inherited (I believe) as they were all related and they kept getting their head swelled up as they would start to roll again. So I moved on from those birds and have not experienced it since then. Who knows, I am not quick at all to pull the trigger...lol
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Sal Ortiz
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