jim
228 posts
Apr 11, 2009
12:20 AM
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Hi everybody,
I believe Hannes will be the first judge that will judge without the half a second rule. I believe the scores will be much lower than previous years. Would you like to share your opinions on this?
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Jim "Mason"
http://www.devilear-roller.co.za
Member of NBRC
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DeepSpinLofts
1341 posts
Apr 11, 2009
3:29 AM
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Hi Jim....
May the best team win!
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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j .wanless
714 posts
Apr 11, 2009
5:59 AM
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hi jim
hopefuly your right + we might get back to realistic scoring.which for us in the uk can only be good.as a lot of people here wont fly in the w/c due to the rediculous high scores.
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Scott
2009 posts
Apr 11, 2009
6:20 AM
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I think that it is going to depend on the judge , the 1/2 sec rule was never a problem with good judges as they used it only to score birds breaking as team should, after all a 1/2 sec is a flash.
I have found with the high scoreing judges that the 1/2 rule had nothing to do with anything as it might as well be 3 sec between each bird LOL
Taking out the 1/2 sec rule is a good start though, no doubt.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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jim
229 posts
Apr 11, 2009
6:57 AM
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Hi
Scott in the instense of a good judge I am sure the 1/2 is going to make a big difference. All clubs here is doing judging workshops at the moment and the scores are definately lower. I notice there is a lot of breaks we use to score were 3 birds go and then 4 afterwards but these are not scoreable now. If you judge a braek strict on one movement its not that easy anymore, I am sure we are going to see much more electric busts in the neer future. A thing that I would like to see the worlcup change is the minimum depth from 10 foot to 20 foot. At least then we can see the breaks. According to me 10 foot is .86 of a second so how do you judge the quality of a bird you cannot see roll. Just my five sents.
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Jim "Mason"
http://www.devilear-roller.co.za
Member of NBRC
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 7:02 AM
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Scott
2011 posts
Apr 11, 2009
7:43 AM
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Jim, I never judged such breaks, to me the 1/2 sec rule was in place "not" to score such breaks, as for the depth I don't cut hairs , I want some seperation this tells me they went at least 10 ft, as for the high scoreing judges I find that depth means nothing as they are scoreing birds doing a few flips on.
The bottom line is we just plain need good judges and hopefully we can start seeing that.
(I notice there is a lot of breaks we use to score were 3 birds go and then 4 afterwards but these are not scoreable now. If you judge a braek strict on one movement its not that easy anymore)
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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pigeon pete
279 posts
Apr 11, 2009
9:14 AM
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Jim,
I think that most minor rules are not needed if you judge properly.
You wrote:--
According to me 10 foot is .86 of a second so how do you judge the quality of a bird you cannot see roll. Just my five sents.
Exactly, if it doesn't roll long enough to see it roll and weigh up it's quality, it can't be judged, so the too short birds should rule themselves out of the picture, and so a minimum depth rule isn't needed.
You read a lot about a judge not being able to see this or that, but it is suprising what you can take on board in the space of one second if you are concentrating. Most times, counting the number in the break is not a matter of going one two three four etc in your head, or else we would only ever get breaks of 3 or 4, you look, and your mind takes a short movie, and you are still counting after they have finished rolling. On a big break with seperation, you judge quickly if all in the break were up to minimum standard or not, and if they were, you can then compare your 'snapshot' with how many didn't roll.
If in a big break you spot 3 that were not of good enough standard, and quickly see 5 that didn't roll, you can fairly confidently score 12. If you are not so sure you will score 10 or eleven. I have judged big breaks where there were so many birds dropping, twizzling etc that I just couldn't tell what was happenning, and didn't score the break although there were in all probability more than 5 rolling.
You have to be honest and call it as you see it.
Pete.
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BA Rollers
221 posts
Apr 11, 2009
11:14 AM
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Removing the verbage of 1/2 rule and retaining/adding the word Unison leaves the definition open just as before. When asked what one half second was I would ask the person back, show me one half second. They generally got the point that one half second is a very short period of time.
Unison is another beast that will rear its ugly head....just wait and see.
What is unison? We know it to be "together". Right? I know some people who interpret Unison to mean rolling together at the same time. So they believe that as long as the birds are "rolling" at some point together at the same time, it is okay and they stand by their beliefs because it makes sense to them. If you have birds that break, then .5 or .75 of a second later more break, for a moment they are all rolling together....in unison. This would be a very bold classic waterfall, but they are in unison for a period of time.
Why the WC committee is so afraid to carve in hard lined rules is beyond me. If you want to use only the word unison, then you must clarify the intention of the word so that it is clear to the members what the intent of the word is. I view in Unison to mean breaking together instantaneously. Challenge me that I'm wrong? You cannot. Because the intent of the rules has not been specifically clarified which it drastically needs to be.
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 11:15 AM
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Scott
2017 posts
Apr 11, 2009
11:27 AM
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There you go Brian, throwing a monkey Wrench into the whole forking thing LOL
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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SiDLoVE
397 posts
Apr 11, 2009
1:34 PM
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I agree with Scott, As long as the judge is Quality it wont matter weather its 1/2 second or 3 seconds. The playing field has always been the same, and the judge has the final word so stop crying .lol.. Not always the best kit wins if it has a off day for the final. 99% backyard flier, 1% competetion flier.
Were in it for the birds right ? LOL
Sidlove
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Velo99
2089 posts
Apr 11, 2009
1:45 PM
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It might be a question to be asked by the flyer. Be proactive!
I really like to know what to expect when the judge starts calling off numbers. I also use the judges interpretation as a measure of my own standards.
I judge my kits at times thru the year. When I see a judge only 2-3 times a year it helps me to have another trained eye to compare my calls with.
I agree with Brian,there are guys who will be all over this one.
My take...only the birds that go by the time the first ones get tucked in get counted.
There is a lot of activity that has to be seperated in an instant. Wings sometimes are reflecting sunshine,there are birds that dont commit and pull up,sometimes a wonky roll or wing switch. As this is all going on you gotta discount the ones that didnt go at the same time and get a depth and quality.
While on the subject,an eight bird break,the birds pull out at various levels.The first at right under twenty,but three go thirty to thirty five. Fifteen breaks,seven to twelve bird breaks and this an average break for the kit in question. What do you give as a depth multiplier?
yits
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V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
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\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__14___()_)\__\
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 2:00 PM
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Spin City USA
207 posts
Apr 11, 2009
5:49 PM
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Scott said,"The bottom line is we just plain need good judges and hopefully we can start seeing that". It would be great if some of the more experienced flyers would get together and hold some judgeing work shops. It would at very least put a group of interested people on the same page, both new and old flyers.
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They gotta Spin to win.....Jay
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