DeepSpinLofts
1343 posts
Apr 11, 2009
3:42 AM
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My ideal Birmingham Roller pigeon must be capable of.... and rolling in the air approx. 25ft or more in depth (which is the height of the average telephone pole we see) with a tremendous amount of velocity on the spin.
Hmm.....
A good spinner in my opinion is one that is rolling on average at least once per minute.... however I prefer style over frequency in these instances. When I say style, I'm referring basically to the form, speed (velocity) and tightness on the roll when a bird turns over rapidly in acrobatic flight.
Over the years, I've discovered that attaining an incredibly high velocity on the spin is extremely tough and only through selective breeding practices & proper loft management (feeding, breeding, training and flying) can this aerial feat actually be achieved. Our backyards are full of good performers that can and will roll frequently in the kit.
.....but
The key in general here is whether or not our birds can spin with proper rolling style (high velocity) and the athletic stamina required to fly in a competition against other kits of rolling pigeons.
MASTER PLAN: The goal is to get 11-to-20 rollers with high velocity on the spin to perform together as a harmonius unit (team) while in the air.
My definition of a high velocity spinner isn't necessarily judged by the speed a bird descends to mother earth from the kit, but it's the dynamic magnitude of the birds spherical gyrations (the incredible speed a rolling pigeon whirls around in circular motions in the air) while tucked neatly in proper rolling form like a tennis ball.
...also
Keep in mind that the faster a bird descends (rolls towards earth) without crashing... the better.... and of course the greater the velocity & tightness on the spin is even greater!
NOTE: For breeding purposes I would much rather prefer a good rolling pigeon that spins say in the 15ft-30ft range with lightning fast velocity, than say a roller that drops down 40ft in a clean smooth rolling pattern.... but is lacking the momentous velocity (lightning fast speed) comparable to a champion spinner.
====> The true champion Birmingham Roller pigeon is a very rare commodity.
....so
If any of you possess a "Champion Performer" somewhere in the loft, then for heavens sake... 'HOLD on to it"!
MEMO: A conversation across the table from a wise man is better than years of study of only books.... for its true that wisdom is acquired by an inquiring mind.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 3:44 AM
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ezeedad
937 posts
Apr 11, 2009
11:43 AM
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Marcus,
As I read your definition of the ideal spinner, you seem only to be concerned with velocity, and you use the terms style and velocity interchangably.
But speed and velocity are two distinctly different things. Style has to do with wing position, the presence or absence of the hole... and I might add smoothness of the performance.
Speed often...maybe even usually... comes at the expense of style. I agree with you in your desire to breed and possess the fastest birds possible, and that they are uncommon... But the birds that have comparable velocity and which roll with wings straight up and showing the hole are rare.
Paul Gomez
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quickspin
1012 posts
Apr 11, 2009
3:09 PM
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We all want speed but they have to have the style to go with it. Even if we breed a super lightning speed bird if is a X style is still a X and I'll take a better style over it with less speed.
Speed= velocity of the roll.
Style like Paul stated wing position. Here are some wing position pictures so others can get an idea. The closer they touch on top and on the bottom the higher the quality.
I think is a lot harder to breed for style than for speed.
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®SALAS LOFT
I.C.R.C
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DeepSpinLofts
1351 posts
Apr 11, 2009
5:35 PM
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Thanks Paul & Quickspin.
You see there... we learn something new everyday.
MEMO: Knowledge is a very powerful tool... use it wisely!
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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gotspin7
2360 posts
Apr 11, 2009
8:41 PM
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LOL! Marcus, never a dull moment! Hey Quick, I agree! Good luck...
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Sal Ortiz
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DeepSpinLofts
1353 posts
Apr 11, 2009
9:35 PM
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Never a dull moment ehh....
Whew doggie!
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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wishiwon2
178 posts
Apr 11, 2009
10:00 PM
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Marcus you said, "Keep in mind that the faster a bird descends (rolls towards earth) without crashing... the better.... "
Why do you think it is better if the bird descends at a faster rate? I see no value in it ...
"NOTE: For breeding purposes I would much rather prefer a good rolling pigeon that spins say in the 15ft-30ft range with lightning fast velocity, than say a roller that drops down 40ft in a clean smooth rolling pattern.... but is lacking the momentous velocity (lightning fast speed) comparable to a champion spinner. "
I'll hafta unravel this a bit at a time.
I agree with Paul and quickspin, style is paramount to all other characteristics of rolling. If you dont have style, velocity means little. A component of style is balance, thats what makes for the smoothness in a roll. Style is also a trait that seems very difficult to breed for and fix within stock. Gimme first a clean, smooth () winged roller, then speed it up, then make it 40 footer and youve really got yourself something special. Its not an "either" "or" choice very often as you stated above, there are too many characteristics involved. I say style has to come first.
I dont like the designation of "champion" as a descriptive title for a quality roller. A champion of what? If it does in fact win some contest, and therefore becomes a champion does it automatically become desireable?? ... no!
Also in your description of an ideal spinner, there is no mention of what its doing in relation to a kit. Another degree of difficulty in breeding top spinners ...
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Jon
"had fun, wish i won 2"
If it were easy, everybody would do it ...
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DeepSpinLofts
1357 posts
Apr 11, 2009
10:05 PM
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Jon... very good question.
That's something I'm going to have to sleep on buddy.
{P.S.} My lovely wife is in bed right now waiting for me and it's happy hour in my house.
Good night.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 10:05 PM
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ezeedad
940 posts
Apr 12, 2009
1:08 PM
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LOL..?? So what's the joke Sal?
Isn't this supposed to be about the rollers?
Say what you mean and mean what you say.
Beware of those who speak with a forked tongue.
Paul G
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gotspin7
2364 posts
Apr 12, 2009
1:40 PM
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LOL..?? So what's the joke Sal?
Isn't this supposed to be about the rollers?
Paul, no joke here. The guy is just funny to me, I am not sure if he does it intentionally or that is just him, either way no big deal and to which I said never a dull moment!
No forked tounge here bro. I will break you off straignt out..
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Sal Ortiz
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Ty Coleman
619 posts
Apr 12, 2009
1:50 PM
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rolling in the air approx. 25ft or more in depth (which is the height of the average telephone pole we see) with a tremendous amount of velocity on the spin.
Marcus, I talked with the guy who is over Georgia Power in our region and asked him the length of a average poll, he said they were between 47 and 50 feet and 8 feet was burried leaving 39 to 42 feet of the pole above ground. I have never been on the West coast but this is the average on the East coast.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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ezeedad
941 posts
Apr 12, 2009
2:18 PM
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Okay Sal....
I can see it that way... LOL... Guess I just have a suspicious mind... for some reason or other...
Paul
Last Edited by on Apr 12, 2009 2:44 PM
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Ty Coleman
620 posts
Apr 12, 2009
7:20 PM
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20 , 40 , and 60 feet above ground was the answer from your link. I was just pointing out our average according to the guy who puts them up here.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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DeepSpinLofts
1363 posts
Apr 12, 2009
9:50 PM
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Okay now... let's try to see if we can straighten this issue out. If you go back up top and read the 1st paragraph in my original post;
I distinctly stated:
====> "rolling in the air approx. 25ft or more in depth"
hence -- (25ft or more in depth)
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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