DeepSpinLofts
1344 posts
Apr 11, 2009
3:48 AM
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I hear that Tim Decker in Southern Calif. is using the #272 bloodline as a cross and is reportedly experiencing some positive results.
Anyone around here working with that particular family?
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 5:39 AM
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3757
1216 posts
Apr 11, 2009
5:33 AM
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Marcus - For history sake here is a little information and I know this is not your question but I think you should know. The line, not the bird, but the line was started and proven out by Herb Sparkes long before anyone else had the pigeons. It was his line and the birds were loaned out. Many of the famous birds bred by others were copy matings that Herb had already proving. These matings were done when the birds were on loan for two years. This is how the 272 birds got out.
Herb still has his original 272 line also.
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 5:39 AM
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DeepSpinLofts
1349 posts
Apr 11, 2009
5:41 AM
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Thanks LaRon!
QUESTION: Does Herb Sparkes birds cross well with the Plonas or Reed families of rolling pigeons?
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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3757
1217 posts
Apr 11, 2009
6:02 AM
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I do not know Marcus because I do not have Reed pigeons or Plona's. I know within the Pensom lines of Herbs family they crossed well originally but it was not really a cross but line bred birds.
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Scott
2010 posts
Apr 11, 2009
6:35 AM
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Marcus, like any old line of birds they are only as good as what has been selected by those that breed them through the years,many are culls, and the good ones are as good as it gets, my birds are loaded with 272 but I give 272 little thought.
As for Tims, I think what he is useing is down from the Blu Bar cock that JV has , Tim borrowed that bird for quite some time, that bird also has a touch of Crtis in it as do many of Kisers birds these days.
Kind of a funny story, 5 or so years ago, myself ,Billings and Jack Meyers stayed the night with JV and when we were going through his birds JV would bring up like "out of my Blue Bar Cock" , and each and every time we would correct him with "you means Tims Blue Bar cock" LOL well it was funny if you were there LOL
The fact is that old line is a pain in the ass to handle, but if they have been selected properly and in the right condition the good ones can take your breath away.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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DeepSpinLofts
1350 posts
Apr 11, 2009
8:19 AM
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Thanks Scott....
Maybe I need to borrow a top notch high velocity spinner or 2 from a reputable W/C flyer.
Hmm...
I will keep you in mind Scott (smile).
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 8:21 AM
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George R.
1422 posts
Apr 11, 2009
8:25 AM
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I have two pair of 272 line pigeons from Jack Tisdale that he loaned me last year .
The four Birds were the best in his kit in 2008, I have crossed them with my old Reed line and I got some fast and deep spinners with control . I really lliked the matings but since I have to return the Birds soon i am breeding them strait now so I will have the pure blood to play with once I return the loaners. I am also flying some yearlings from the 272 line that Jack gave me last year and they are very fast with depth at about 30 to 40 feet.
George
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 8:28 AM
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155
1015 posts
Apr 11, 2009
8:47 AM
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Good input guys, so how true is that Tim is working with two family of birds? One his call his 4 in 1 and the other is called the 3 in 1 does anyone have any info on that?
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EVILLOFT'S
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Scott
2013 posts
Apr 11, 2009
9:54 AM
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What on earth is a copy mating ? Was Herb copy mating McCully ? was McCully copy mating Pensom ? am I copy mating Billings ? What difference does it make, where are these birds now in various lofts ?
(Many of the famous birds bred by others were copy matings that Herb had already proving. These matings were done when the birds were on loan for two years. This is how the 272 birds got out.)
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 10:56 AM
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Scott
2015 posts
Apr 11, 2009
10:46 AM
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Evil, Tim has allways had a few families going , this is something that you need to talk to him about, myself I have two lines of birds,the same yet different.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Scott
2016 posts
Apr 11, 2009
10:58 AM
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LaRon, a few years ago Kiser sent Sparks 9 hens , Why ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Good Times Roll
36 posts
Apr 11, 2009
11:12 AM
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LaRon Who did the mating first of 313 and 873 Herb or one of the Joe's ?
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3757
1218 posts
Apr 11, 2009
12:23 PM
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Scott -Did you know that he did not use one of them? Why? I am being facetious Scott by asking the why but he did not use any. But when you hear the story it is told as if he used them and all sorts of other stories that are total BS and skewed to one side. If you ever speak with him Scott you will call me and say he is one heck of a fancier. In my book he is one of the greats and is the nicest guy you would ever want to meet. A lot of the stories told are total BS. It was 10 years ago after the weasel attack. Scott, to me a guys morales are more important than anything and I think you will understand what I mean.
0221 - Stan Plona bred 272? No, he was bred off of two Pensom birds and Hugo Blass bred him. There are a lot of rumors and stories about all sorts of fanciers that are just not true at all and most fanciers today believe what they hear and take it at face value.
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 12:46 PM
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Mongrel Lofts
590 posts
Apr 11, 2009
1:30 PM
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Laron,
So Hugo Blass is really the breeder and one responsible for the #272 line.He kind of made Herbs line? I know this is fact, as I had Birds off his B/S from Hugo. Didn't Bill Mcrae or herb get one of the sister hens parents out of a egg in Howards kit box?? Parents questionable? I guess my point is. We all choose the way we want to believe things. Herb is just another good roller man!!Nothing special. Except for the prices he sells rollers for! He doesn't walk on water. KGB
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yang501424
249 posts
Apr 11, 2009
1:33 PM
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I dont think Herb sells bird. Its people that wants to buy.
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Good Game Loft
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3757
1219 posts
Apr 11, 2009
1:44 PM
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Kenny - I guess my post was not clear at all but I never said Herb walked on water as no one does. It is funny how every reads something different it is the same reason the bible is interpreted differently by a host of people. Herb is a great fancier to me and a friend. 272 was one bird in one the line as well as a host more like 3859,6164, 6097, 3845 etc. So one bird did not make his line if that is the implication even though the name 272 is usually what people refer to them as.
0221 - Dale Guthormsens birds were also from Herb. Dale and Herb are best friends.
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 1:58 PM
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Good Times Roll
37 posts
Apr 11, 2009
1:59 PM
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Kenny I have allways had the numbers on the birds behind the sister hens,There is a couple un banded birds and from what I was told McRae had problems with the NBRC then and didnt get bands,Then another bird by a W.Miller but there is numbers behind it also
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glenn
230 posts
Apr 11, 2009
2:19 PM
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In my mind Herb Sparkes will forever be known as the man who would not give Mrs. Doris Pensom, Bill Pensom's breeding records....Period....Glenn
He(Herb Sparkes)should of given them back to her when she asked for them. That action speaks for itself as to the who the man is....Glenn
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 7:59 PM
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Good Times Roll
38 posts
Apr 11, 2009
2:24 PM
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She has them now
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Good Times Roll
39 posts
Apr 11, 2009
2:25 PM
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ooooooooops they have them now lol
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Scott
2018 posts
Apr 11, 2009
2:45 PM
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I think she has a copy, not the original unless things have changed.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 4:37 PM
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Good Times Roll
40 posts
Apr 11, 2009
2:46 PM
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I have a hard time beleiving the egg and the kit box thing maybe a little kid would do some thing like that, From what I was told they were all very good friends so why would they have to do that? I think there is some anomosity some where
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Scott
2019 posts
Apr 11, 2009
2:49 PM
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LaRon , wasn't meant as a slam, was meant as a fact, as far as I know he made soup out of them , why would he want them though if he didn't want to use them ?
I honestly don't know, that is a question, not that it really matters.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 3:39 PM
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Good Times Roll
41 posts
Apr 11, 2009
2:55 PM
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Herb gave them up and no longer has them not even a copy
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Bill C
330 posts
Apr 11, 2009
6:36 PM
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Hey Marcus, I have some birds from Joe Kiser and Joe Borges. Chan Grover had recently told me the birds I have from Borges were down from (272) Herb Sparks blood lines. I do understand what LaRon is talking about and I agree with him. Just makes more sence than a band number getting credit for many families around.
I have several Red checks in my A team and they are the best you will see here so far in numbers and they go back to Joe Borges at this time. I plan to breed from my A team two rounds and then put them back up for the fall fly.
Not many guys here in Sac wanted birds from Kiser nor Borges but I sure did once I say the quality and velocity and control of those birds. I am very pleased that they have passed on the stability that I really wanted in my birds. I have not done many crosses with them. I know for sure if I crossed it with a Jac it would improve the jac and decrease in the Borges birds. There is a reason so many guys like the Herb Sparks blood lines. But I can tell you they are not six month wonders and easy to fly. They are prone to sky out if fed to much.
I thought Tim Decker moved to Hawaii? Bill C
Last Edited by on Apr 11, 2009 6:38 PM
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macsrollers
39 posts
Apr 11, 2009
6:36 PM
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When I started in the Rollers I ended up with Doug Ouellette birds, in a round about way. Too long of a story to post. Anyway, in 1995 he sent me DJO 86 526 smokey blue bar cock. According to Doug and his pedigrees this bird was the direct grandson of the Herb Sparkes 313 X 50 pair out of 272. Since Doug is a purest in breeding rollers I believe him and his pedigrees as much I will believe anyone else's. So I basically had, on paper, 2nd generation 272 blood and probably as close as anyone had to 272. 526 bred until he was 16 years old and then he died. He produces some outstanding spinners and clicked on a Sister hen hen, some of the best I have seen. As Scott posted earlier, not easy birds to keep down and alot of work to fly. I still have some left that I have mostly stopped breeding straight as they become very seldom. The outcrosses have worked well and I do keep a few bred straight for future use. 272, 514, Clay, Sister hen, etc. are all famous birds from the past. I do enjoy the pedigrees and following the history of rollers, but when it comes down to it how much pure stuff of these famous icons is really still around? I pedigree bred for the first 8 years I was in rollers. I was fortunate to have quality birds and the end result was positive for me but you really need to breed out of what does it in the air for you, regardless to who's name is attached. Randy Gibson taught me, though I was very stubborn and slow to realize, that the only way to make progress is to prove out your breeders. Take a cock and breed it on 3 to 4 different hens, and visa veras with your hens. If they don't produce, get rid of them regardless to the pedigree or name attached. This is really a simple concept and if you follow it you will lose alot of bias that you have towards certain favorites in your loft that really aren't your best birds. They are your favorites because of a piece of paper with a name or impressive background attached. I am not knocking pedigrees or good lines of Rollers. I am just saying don't get hung up on the paper or name. Breed em, fly their young, and breed from only the best picked out of the air. Veterans that know their families inside and out can get away with pedigree breeding and stocking birds unflown, even though most I know are hesitant to stock anything unflown. It can be a long road for beginners if you choose to pedigree breed. So I may have some 272 blood that is most likely as close to the original stuff as anyone else may have, but that doesn't mean squat unless they do it in the air. Don M. Mac's Rollers
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DeepSpinLofts
1354 posts
Apr 11, 2009
9:47 PM
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Hi Mac... I hear Don has some screaming rollers.
The guy I originally purchased my birds from said something about having Kiser and Borges stock. Just hope he was straight forward with me.
{P.S.} George, I'm going to send you that box, I'm sure you'll know exactly what to do with it. he...he..he...
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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