j .wanless
723 posts
Apr 13, 2009
2:20 AM
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hi all
just wondering if any of you have trained your birds to land in the dark.ive done it with mine + can not express enough how it as saved me from loosing kits of my best birds.last night i had 19 old brds go to the heavens as i think we had a lot of high pressure.ive seen my birds drop in the dark many many times with only the light on in my loft.but last night i could not see them at all .i got a call from a mate around 8.45 which here in the uk is dark + i told him i could not see them.i rang him back at 9.20 + told him i had got them all back.i could not believe my luck as my best flying birds were amongst them.i 1st seen it work at a mate of mine dave mosseley years ago.so after loosing kits like i used to do i thought i would try it.i should not say this as it probaly will happen now .but i have not lost an old bird kit since.and i probaly have lost more old birds than any one in the uk over the years.
you may think why bother but any one working who flys good birds will get home from work + want to fly thier birds when really they should not as its getting a bit late.
we have all done it especially when the kit are on fire.
after last night i now know ive cracked it + my birds will
drop no matter how dark it is as it could not get any darker than last night.and it saved me loosing all my best birds.
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pigeon pete
282 posts
Apr 13, 2009
4:03 AM
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Hi John,
Also I presume that the perigrine has already gone to roost by the time it's dark.
Pete
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j .wanless
724 posts
Apr 13, 2009
4:23 AM
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hi pete
it may have been the bop that sent them up there im not sure.but they should never have gone as high as they did on the feed i gave them the night before.
but 1 things certain if i had not dark trained them i would have lost most of them.i was over the moon when i seen most of the kit still together still way up + they all looked white lol.once i could see them i knew they would come down.that puts the myth about them not been able to see in the dark to bed lol.
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Shadow
373 posts
Apr 13, 2009
4:37 AM
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Hello John
What a refreshing and practical,and helpful post,with great and valuable insight to a problem,that on occasions may affect any fancier,birds flying on,getting caught in the dark,lets have some info John,as to how you have trained them,to me a guy who is interested in producing and flying rollers,no interest in colours,legs feathered or not etc,or any of that stuff,which to my line of thought is B/S but for a practical idea that may offer a soloution to me losing a kit of rollers,well to that I am fairly receptive,lets hear it John.
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j .wanless
725 posts
Apr 13, 2009
5:06 AM
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hi dom
dom to a lot of the ignorant flyers this post probaly seems a waste of time .but to people like yourself + a few others i cant explain how important it is to get your birds trained to the dark.believe me dom when i say no one over the years as lost as many good birds as i have in the uk to over flys is an understatement.i have almost packed them in through the stress of loosing so many good birds.but ive noticed over the last few years i rarely loose old brds to overflys.like i said mossely was the 1st person i seen doing it propperly though i seen him fly his when it was dark.though i could not see the sence in that.he flew them at 9pm when it was dark + got the last 1 in at 11.it can be risky when 1st starting it .as you have to fly them a little later each night.starting to drop them as its coming in dark
leaving it a little longer each night.at 1st theyre a little weary dropping but they soon get used to it.its handy if you can drop them on the corn tin or a dropper.last night i flapped the fantail + i swear they dived in or some of them did like the dewlaps lol.i used to use a halegen light but found that startled them so now i only use the light in my loft.
people seem to think i train them by flying when dark
thats not true its all about dropping them when its dark.theres no way i would put my birds out when its dark .but last night gave me one hell of a buzz when the last 1 to drop in was that little red oddside hen.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3236 posts
Apr 13, 2009
5:07 AM
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I have lost a kit and many individuals before in the same circumstances. I had not trained mine though, what I did was took a flood light and pointed it to the roof where they landed (familiar landmark) and whistled and shook the feed can.
At times I could barely make out birds flying, when I started whistling and shaking the feed can, I could see they were responding to the sounds I was making. As I did this, they started to come closer and closer and lower and lower, I tried to move around the backyard and kit box like I would normally do while calling them in and preparing to feed and water, one by one they crash landed on the roof as apparently they have lousy depth perception in the dark.
Now I don't know if I would TRY to fly them in the dark but I can see this could be a great idea for some.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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j .wanless
726 posts
Apr 13, 2009
5:19 AM
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hi tony
i suppose it also depends where you live .i live in a large town + all the houses where i live are 2 storys
like ive said i would never fly them when its dark its all about getting them in when its dark.before i trained them like yours i had to be there as i seen them miss my loft top + land in next doors garden + theres lots of cats where i live.but now they land no problem at all.i think theyve got used to it.about 3 years ago i had rick schoening staying here i flew in the w/c + could not get my birds out until late.after the fly rick went to bed + about 7 of us stayed up having a drink + trying to get the birds down .he must have thought we were mad but at 11.45 pm i got them all in.
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Shadow
377 posts
Apr 13, 2009
5:32 AM
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John
This is a serious good post,and it should be relevant to many flyer's,there is hardly anyone,who hasn't tried to get a fly into their birds late evening,work etc also Perigrine as Pete mentioned,only to find for some unexplainable reason they are reluctant to come down and land,before the onset of darkness,and it makes perfect sense as you have described to start with the youngsters,because like ourselves,its a bit hard to teach old birds,set in their ways, anything,Good Post again John,and one to take note of,I know I will
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gotspin7
2370 posts
Apr 13, 2009
5:38 AM
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John, interesting read for sure. I have experienced the dark catching them as well..lol.. It is not fun at all, as I was stressing out...lol.. I was able to get them all trapped in, all I did was turn on my porch light and one by one they came down. Good training method. Thanks for sharing..
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Sal Ortiz
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
232 posts
Apr 13, 2009
7:33 AM
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I have experienced flying in the dark also, somewhat like Tony with his flood lite, I used a 100whtt lite with a shield to direct the lite to the landing boards an coffee can traps. It would always work and never lost a bird. I lived in Manhattan Beach, CA at the time 1970s.JDA
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turkey buzzard
93 posts
Apr 13, 2009
7:45 AM
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Well this might raise a few hackles so be it. I have seen several prominant fliers release there birds 15 minutes before total darkness for a judge to judge the birds. The sun is already down and all you have is shadows and you can not really see the birds fly. The judge in this case after 5 minutes told the flier that he was unable to judge effectively the kit. That night I witnessed my first owl attack what an awesome sight to see out of total darkness this huge BOP attacking a bird that is just coming into the light.
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2843 posts
Apr 13, 2009
10:24 AM
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I use to fly my birds at dark I have 4 flood lights on the ground that shines on the kitbox but I had to stop because I would let them out before dark but the falcon would come around just before it really got dark for his last dinner and they would go higher and fly for hours so I stop flying them late plus you can't really see them roll anyway..my thing was if I can fly them at night where they can't see imagine in the day time when they can see..I don't think they were kitting together after dark cause they always came down 3 or 5 at a time. I remember the first time I did this they didn't come down till the next day in the AM..I thought to myself could they have been flying all those hours..
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Ralph.
The greatest use of your life is so you live your life so that the use of your life will outlive your life, In other words what you going to leave behind legacy or Dust....
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Electric-man
2297 posts
Apr 13, 2009
12:49 PM
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Ivan Hanchet has the best set up I've seen for landing after dark. If I remember correctly he has the fiberglass sheets that let the sunlight in and when he turns his loft light on inside, it makes the whole roof light up.
Don,t know if he keepsup with this sight anymore and if he would repost a pic, but their was an old picture somewhere in the archives if anyone can find it.
Pretty nice set up if you havent seen it! Think he did mention owl attacks a time or two though. Been a couple of years since I saw the pics and post so I cant remember all the details.
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Val
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2846 posts
Apr 13, 2009
1:06 PM
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Hey Val sup,was that the pic with a pool or a lake next to the loft?
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Ralph.
The greatest use of your life is so you live your life so that the use of your life will outlive your life, In other words what you going to leave behind legacy or Dust....
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Electric-man
2298 posts
Apr 13, 2009
2:30 PM
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I'm thinkin it was a coy pond with like brick sidewalks all around the pond and loft. It was as nice of a set up as I've seen and we have seen some nice ones(set ups) here over the years.
I won't be posting mine on here! LOL
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Val
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JMUrbon
689 posts
Apr 13, 2009
4:52 PM
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I judged a kit in Utah a few year back that was let out 20 minutes before dark and the birds didn't land until after 10 that nite. All of the birds came back. The flier that owned the birds said it was the only way he could fly without getting hit by the falcons. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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RodSD
213 posts
Apr 14, 2009
11:37 PM
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I think the military used to train homers to fly at night and they were successful. I've also read that tippler fanciers trained their birds to do the same because those birds can fly almost 18 hours during competition. They are literally flying at night among the stars and will land by morning.
It would be cool though if you can train your rollers to land at early night. If I am going to do that I will paint my loft or the landing board that can glow at night. Obviously as Tony says, just put a spotlight towards the loft and they may learn to land there.
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j .wanless
729 posts
Apr 15, 2009
7:42 AM
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hi all
rod you dont need any signs or anything you just need to train your birds gradualy bit by bit until they have the confidance to land when its dark.like i said in my earlier post its the best thing i ever done.
and it as saved me from loosing lots of birds.the only thing i use is the light in my pigeon loft.
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
234 posts
Apr 15, 2009
8:00 AM
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j wanless- If that works for you thats great. JDA
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0221
173 posts
Apr 15, 2009
8:30 AM
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I've never tried to train birds to land at night, although I,ve had some do it. When ever I put a light out side for them, it seemed as though they were afraid to cross the shadow line. I like the idea of light glowing through the roof.
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j .wanless
730 posts
Apr 15, 2009
8:47 AM
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hi 0221
i was the same as you i had not trained my birds but many many times i would get caught out by night fall.
and like yours they always seemed hesitant to land in the dark.they would land on the house roofs + most would stay there until the morning.but i always seemed to lose the odd 1.but now i have trained them no matter what time they will come in.its so much better going to bed knowing they are all back in .rather than worrying all night if you are going to get them back or not.
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0221
175 posts
Apr 16, 2009
6:42 AM
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John, We used to fly as late in the evening as possible, because most everybody believed at that time that it scared the birds and you would get more action out of them. I believe now thats just nonsence, like putting baloons and rubber snake and all the other B.S.. Its funny, When your on about compitition, you'll try anything.Now I sure that most everybody knows, that you need a solid family of birmingham rollers that will do the job they're bred for and to leave the nonsence alone. Now with the B.O.P., if he chase's the birds in to the dark, there won't be any to drop. Have fun.
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Bill C
331 posts
Apr 16, 2009
8:57 PM
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Hi John, I was on the phone last night talking to Dave Henderson and this was one of the subjects we were discussing. He knows a lot about many things pertaining to rollers and I am going to see if he will write a few articles for our bulletin. When he does I will forward you the article for your bulletin. He said to use flood lights on the loft. I think you need to start them out as young squeakers though after they get homed during the day while still young start in the evenings and only fly right into dark. It will be a great way for us to fly in winter here In California as we do not get huge storms like most do. We do have fog as a problem though in late winter. Good read. Bill C
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macsrollers
47 posts
Apr 16, 2009
9:08 PM
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Randy Gibson taught me to try to fly my young birds, after they are kitting well, just before dark so that they learn how to land in the dark in case of an overfly, BOP attack, or a late fly that catches them out after sunset. I think you need to be very careful the first few times as it could be a dangerous thing to play with should your birds stay up high and not land. I have had old bird kits out overnight that all returned. Some say that kits will go up higher to follow light as the sun goes down. Randy lives on top of a mountain and has a big construction type flood light that lights up the whole top of the mountain and he loves having it. I don't have such as situation where I live and I rarely fly in the evening due to my work schedule. So I guess it depends on your own situation whether it is beneficial to experiment with training your birds to land in the dark. Appears there are many successes with doing so. Interesting subject!
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0221
185 posts
Apr 17, 2009
4:00 AM
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Its probably easier to do in the Midlands, where the sun never shine's. LOL LOL.
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j .wanless
733 posts
Apr 17, 2009
7:25 AM
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hi all
bill c look forward to reading anything about rollers
i know the tippler men train thier birds to a type of flood light.and dave mossely is an ex tippler man.though when i seen him drop his birds in the dark he used no lights at all.he said he thinks they cause shadows + frighten the birds.macrollers when i 1st start to fly my y/brds i like to fly them as late as i possibly can before dark as it tends to make them kit like glue + also they stay very close to my house
but like you said if you dont have complete control over them it can be a very dangerous game to play.
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