Steve S.
Guest
Feb 20, 2004
6:17 AM
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I would like to hear your views on this subject.
Can we give our rollers to much mineral boosters and vitamins?
Will it take away our ability to keep them under control for performance?
Will it increase the performance at all?
How much is to much?
Later
Steve S.
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Show Rollers
Guest
Feb 23, 2004
9:09 PM
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Steve S.
I can not speak for flying rollers or what it may do or what it may not do, But my Show Rollers rarely ever get clear water. They get amino acids,vitamins,minerals,gut
bacteria,or something in the water each day. This pays
real dividens for me at the shows. RON
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Mother lode lofts
Guest
Feb 24, 2004
8:25 AM
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Steve as for your question of will it help performance the answer is yes if what you are refering is work rate,but only as long as they've gone without and then used as a stimulation,when we set up a team we are looking at,conditioning the birds,and then at that right time,stimulating the kit,which can be done several ways,one is the feed change,I set up with Wheat and then hit them with a richer feed on thier last fly day before the fly,generally they will get gritted light also of which they havn't seen in a month,and they will also get vitamines and minerals in the water for one day,the minerals in the grit plus whats in the water along with the richer feed along with the 2-3 day rest after a period of hard fly time(depending on condition) stimulates them for that magic moment when you open the door on fly day,now for the cautions,grit has salt and salt means more water cunsumption and a bird retaining water will show it in the roll,overdone the minerals can also jack the kit up and put them in the clouds, or over stimulate them where they are just to active coming out of the gate and not wanting to settle down and work as a team,I might also mention that the stiffer the team the more stimulation will help(which only stands for reason),a good solid team of hard working birds are the ones that you'll screw up by over stimulating (been there done that),theres other ways to stimulate a team also I might add.
Scott Campbell
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
4 posts
Feb 25, 2004
12:05 AM
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I have to agree with Scott, those things are good stimulants when they have been void of having it for a while. My show breeds get a steady routine of Pro-bios, vitamins, electrolytes, garlic and assorted other conditioning tricks which contribute to healthy breeding stock and show conditioning. That works just the opposite for a flying team as far as the results go. Treat the flyers that good for a while and they'll fly for 12 hours, come down for a little sex and a snack and go back up on ya...lol. I give all my kit birds a little splash of vitamins about once a month as well as a little mineral grit. ACV in the water at least once a week and oil seeds for the younger teams that are molting. The vitamins and removing the water before the fly seems to work as a great trigger on comp day.
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Steve S.
Guest
Feb 25, 2004
12:59 PM
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Thanks,
Ron,Brian,Scott,
All good informative Posts.
Steve S.
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centralvalleylofts
19 posts
Sep 17, 2005
10:59 AM
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i liked your topic and your responses. i would like to hear more on this from all you guys.
steve
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Newflyer
19 posts
Sep 17, 2005
2:21 PM
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Hey Steve I think that anyone who has to give their birds stimulants too fly to win a competition is WRONG. Just like body builders do to get ready for the big competion and BOOM..then they crash and fall apart.But leave it up to the SHOW people to PUMP up their birds. Why would you not just depend on the natural ingredients of the food you feed them .If a person has to PUMP up their birds like that just to WIN I think they have a real problem. To me I think that is a matter of CHEATING . And I dont have anything to do with cheeters. If the birds can ROLL naturally, then the birds can ROLL.Some days are just better then others. Just my opinion .Thanks for listening
Last Edited by Newflyer on Sep 17, 2005 2:23 PM
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Velo99
81 posts
Sep 17, 2005
2:24 PM
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I give my birds vitamins in the water a couple of times a week. Never really strong so it doesn`t affect the performance. I feed oystershell instead of grit. The vitamins are for show birds, they have minerals and electrolytes. I give acv once a month. A light mix 1/4 teaspoon to the half gal.
MTC Yits
V99
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
144 posts
Sep 17, 2005
3:35 PM
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Newflyer, get a season of competition under your belt then come back and answer your own question. I bet if you are serious about flying in competitions, you will have a different take on it.
I don't believe anyone here advertised giving their birds some kind of medicinal or chemical enhancement to get their birds into top form. Flying rollers simply does not work that way. Atheletes of all types rely on different sources of energy and stimulus to keep their performance as best that it can be. The same holds true for rollers. Giving vitamins to a kit which has been naturally deprived of many quality vitamins and minerals through their limited feed source will give them an added "spark", or even give them the needed energy given their fitness level to endure constant, repetitive performance during the fly.
Hockey players routinely eat a large bowl of oatmeal three hours before a game, along with taking additional electrolyte and vitamin supplements to not only help them sustain a high level of energy, but keep their mind on point.
Most hardcore, serious roller competitors utilize some kind of stimulous and energy trick to get the most out of their birds come comp day. If a person's birds so are so good that they don't require any "tweaking", then that's great. But for most guys, they know their birds and know they can always be better.
Great roller flyers are psychological mechanics!
Brian.
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
458 posts
Sep 17, 2005
4:02 PM
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Well said Brian.It would be nice if they worked the same everyday out of the kit box but it just don,t happen.I don,t care how good they are they won't always perform the same.To many factors with weather,feed etc. taking place that dictates how they will perform.Even we as people react different to these factors.Heck if it wasn,t for Meds & Vitimins I wouldn't move.LOL.
Newflyer.Would you consider yourself cheating if you used a higher octane gas in your car to get better performance? David
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Newflyer
20 posts
Sep 17, 2005
4:29 PM
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Well David I thought we were talking about rollers,not cars .... LOL... Certain cars were made to use higher octane anyway. I just dont believe in PUMPING up birds for a competition (only). Why not keep them PUMPED up all the time then? This way they would always be ready to fly at their best.
Paul
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motherlodelofts
271 posts
Sep 17, 2005
5:18 PM
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Paul , they can't do thier potential everyday just like an athlete can't do it. They just can't handle it and you will blow them out.
My old birds are kept "off" of form most of the time, then they are honed in to thier potential for a short period of time.
That window is short, the rest of the time it is about maintance feeding and flying , sure you will see rolling but not like you will see when they are on point.
When they are right everything is at optimun such as Qaulity, Speed,Depth and work rate.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Sep 17, 2005 5:20 PM
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fhtfire
208 posts
Sep 17, 2005
5:52 PM
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Well Paul
First off you referred to body building. I was a competitive body builder for about 5 years as well as a college football player...wrestler...etc. What we do to rollers is about the same as what athletes do before a competition. I will use the body building part. During the offseason you bulk up...eat like a pig...lots of calories..and rest more...Lift real heavy to put on mass....as you get closer to competition you tweek your diet and start doing a lot of cardio and your workout is a more intense lighter weight..higher rep workout. You basically lower your calorie intake and eat more fruits and vegitables and your carbs and protein are pretty much balanced..You eat just enough to keep most of your muscle mass....fat is removed..no cheese..no milk...no fat! that is so you get cut and lower your bodyfat... Then one week before the contest you really tweak your diet...on 7,6,5,4 days from competition you start carb depleting...slowly removing carbs from your diet...it makes you feel like shit..energy wise....then you start carb loading...you pretty much cut out all protein the day before the competition...so..your body is starving for carbs....so when you carb load...your muscles get very stimulated and "PUMP" like no other. You also cut your water the day before so that you look really muscular and "CUT". I was a natural body builder. No steroids..that is cheating! SO my point is..it is not cheating it is stimulating your body...to get the look on the competition...and believe me...I have peaked two days after a competition..or looked better two days after...it just happens. Just like your birds..open the door on comp day and they do pretty good...fly them two days later and they are on fire..your timing was just off...So...just like your birds..in the offseason you are feeding them up...resting them more...to get through the molt...then when it is close to the comp you play with the feed and start flying them more...get them in good rolling shape....just like in body building..more cardio and tweak your diet...then you feed the birds straight wheat to stimulate....just like body building..you cut back carbs then load up for "stimulation".Like giveing the birs straight wheat... So it is not cheating in either aspect...you are just using diet and timing and exercise to get the best out of your body and birds. The same goes for any sport..before wrestling...lots of carbs for energy on the mat...lots of running to be in tip top shape. electrolytes for quick recovery for your next match...It is not cheating...it is just getting in tip top shape.
Now...why don't you keep them pumped all the time...well you can't that is the truth...A body builder can't maintain the competition look all the time...it is hard to maintain 4-5% body fat..physically and mentally....you need rest (off season)...your rollers can't do it physically or mentally...or you will have lawn darts....Lance Armstrong can't maintain his tip top tour de france shape the whole year...neither can any athlete..it is constant...building....peaking.....resting(recouping)...then building.....peaking...and so on...just like the birds. No creature can maintain the "Peak" the whole time. Just my 2 cents!
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nicksiders
205 posts
Sep 17, 2005
9:00 PM
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I gave my kids vitamins and minerals everyday and I take a vitamin and mineral pill eveyday. I give my birds vitamins and minerals in thier drinking water tow days a week.
I see nothing wrong with it.........it protects thier health. It protected my kids health. It protects my health.
Nothing more and nothing less................
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
459 posts
Sep 18, 2005
4:52 AM
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Brian.What type of vitimins,electrolites etc do you use and how much do you use?Do you do this regular or just when you are setting up for a fly? You can email me private if you perfer.I am getting into a bind here with the Finals coming up and the Hawks hitting me so hard forcing me to Lockdown for much of the time.I never bothered with Lockdowns before but as Scott said If I don,t I won,t have anything to fly. Before I could alternate fly times and get away with flying but they are so bad this year that they are hitting everytime I put a kit up.
I guess what I am asking is how will the vitimins etc, affect the kit when flying on a regular basis and how will it affect when kit is in Lockdown.I have never used any side vitimins to any extent before so any info would help.Thanks,David
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dave
18 posts
Sep 18, 2005
8:05 PM
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I also would like to know what kind of vitamins and how much to use. Maybe I'll use it for the local club fly to test things out.
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motherlodelofts
273 posts
Sep 18, 2005
9:51 PM
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Red Cell 1/2 a cap to a gallon, be carefull as it can also put them high , this is used as last resort for a not so good team or a stiff team, if it is truelly a good team then I won't use it as it can put them over the edge, I blew my W/C regional due to this.
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Ballrollers
74 posts
Sep 19, 2005
10:10 AM
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Scott, Tell me more about the Red Cell. I just got some in and was thinking about juicing up the A team with it before I fly on October 15. Not a good idea, huh? YITS Cliff
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motherlodelofts
277 posts
Sep 19, 2005
4:27 PM
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Cliff it can be a great idea or a fiasco LOL , it just depends.
That is just it,there is no magic, I will probably use it on my Y/B team for the regionals,my old bird team is solid so stimulating in such a way for the regionals is can easily do more harm than good.
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Alohazona
61 posts
Sep 20, 2005
12:46 AM
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Cliff,I use red cell either in water or a few drops on a can of feed,the water is more of an instant boost,say if you give it to them in the morning to fly in the afternoon,the feed is a more delayed,subtle effect,if you do both,keep the lights on for 'um[lol].Aloha,Todd
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Ballrollers
75 posts
Sep 20, 2005
10:26 AM
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Scott, Todd, Appreciate the feedback, guys. When you say it gives them a boost or stimulates them, do you mean to fly stronger and longer, thereby maybe rolling less, or to roll more because of altering their electrolyte balance, (which was what I was thinking)? YITS Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Sep 20, 2005 10:28 AM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
464 posts
Sep 23, 2005
10:42 AM
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Does this Red Cell have a peak time you are working with or can you give it daily/weekly.How long of a time span before you see results. What about giving to breeders.Like Cliff I have some but don,t knew how to use it.The directions on the bottle don,t say much.Just a tablespoon per gallon of water.Scott I know you blew your team up this spring with red cell but I can,t remember what you said it did to them.From what Todd said if you give them to much they may fly all day.Can,t have that at this time of year.LOL. David
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