TT
GOLD MEMBER
427 posts
Jun 24, 2009
12:34 PM
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If anyone can give me some input it would be greatly appreciated, The problem Im having is that i cant keep my birds up high, evryday i have them out they stay low(100') them maybe if im lucky they will rise to 250' then back down low, twice they have hit 500' or so but dont stay up around that height.
Ive tried these few things,
straight wheat for a week
milo for a week
milo and barley for a week
lock them up for three days
I first pulled the peas out of the mix to slow the birds down that helped for a bit, Ive ranged my food from 1 tblesp to up to 2 tblesp, they trap fine still on these portions anything more then 2 tblesp they take there time,
I started puling older cock birds out,(had a cock bird that i thought was the culprit)then 2 then 3 etc, but they dont last up there.
when they leave the surroundings of my property they rise to where i like them but when they come around the loft they zip right down and start little fast circles then slow down and stay low.
Now ive taken them a few blocks away and released them, they rise but again when they get close to the house there
back down.
Also i should mention that ive introduced 4 birds i borrowed from a friend of mine that did fly higher then mine to help pull the kit up, works for a bit maybe the only reason my birds ever went up but then again they come low
Im thinking i royally screwed my first kit up badly, maybe have to retire the whole kit,
Can someone shed some light on this for me.
Thank you
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Tony...
"Color is not an option"
Last Edited by on Jun 24, 2009 12:38 PM
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TT
GOLD MEMBER
429 posts
Jun 24, 2009
2:12 PM
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0221,
The thing is that they are flying for 45 min to an hr,
but 85% of it is low.
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Tony...
"Color is not an option"
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TT
GOLD MEMBER
430 posts
Jun 24, 2009
2:42 PM
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At the moment there getting wheat and milo, I add some safflower for the last couple days, youngsters are from mid Feb early March
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Tony...
"Color is not an option"
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kham89
224 posts
Jun 24, 2009
2:54 PM
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I having the same problem as you TT. But im feeding mine 12% and I have try switching to Wheat/milo. They will do as you say above. Any suggestion is welcome from anyone Im all ear.
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kham thao
Short NinJa LoFt
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cvr(FR3rd)
133 posts
Jun 24, 2009
2:57 PM
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give them stright weat for a week should help good luck
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Fernando Ruelas
CVR
Ruelas loft
"the harder you work the harder it is to give up"
start strong maintain strength finish stronger... rajah football
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Norm_Knox
318 posts
Jun 24, 2009
2:57 PM
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Hey Tony holler at Rick and ask him. He can give you the best advice...
Norm
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N/A Loft
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fhtfire
1975 posts
Jun 24, 2009
3:07 PM
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First off...you should NOT be feeding straight wheat for young birds....you feed them mix and ALOT until they come into the roll...these young birds are still developing and growing and going through the first moult....my young birds that are from Jan and Feb are still getting mix.......they need lots of protein while they are growing....dont feed them like old birds...that may be the reason they are flying low...
I think if you feed them a mix they will go up...my young birds only get wheat and milo until they start rolling...doing 10ft or so....then I move them up with a team with LIKE performance.....not age....Performance.....then I rest them one day after each fly and on the rest day they will get a wheat milo mix....so wheat milo on rest day and mix on fly day.....
I never use straight wheat on any of my birds for a long period of time....especially young birds....or until I prep for comp....my old brids or A-team...get mix after I fly...then rest for two days and wheat milo for the two rest days....if they feel light..they get mix the second rest day...I cut the rations each day..old birds for 20 get a full ration of 2 cups of mix...then 1 3/4 then 1 cup.....a full ration for my young birds EVERYDAY is mix 2.5-3 cups per 20 birds.....
If they still dont go up..throw a couple old birds with them....they will follow the old birds up..they are staying low because they have no fuel...
Again...MIX for young birds man....they need it....remember...wheat and milo are a tool for performance....you are not trying to get performance out of young birds.....just get them to roll....mix does not start affecting young birds until about 8 months...young birds will not get fat on you.
During the winter everything gets Mix..anyway....
take them off the wheat and feed babies like they should and you will see an improvement.
I am close to 16-18 % for my young birds mix...
rock and ROLL
Paul
You would not feed you two your old kid lettuce everyday...a growing kid and animal need NUTRIENTS
Last Edited by on Jun 24, 2009 3:08 PM
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TT
GOLD MEMBER
432 posts
Jun 24, 2009
3:13 PM
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Paul & 0221 thanks for the advice,
I was going to ask if i should be giving a higher protein/ carb mix but you answered my question.
Thank you
Norm,
I totally agree with you, I did ask Rick, He gave me some advice but you can only bug someone so much before i feel that i become a headache. LOL
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Tony...
"Color is not an option"
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kham89
226 posts
Jun 24, 2009
3:18 PM
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Thanks Paul
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kham thao
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Ldogxxx
28 posts
Jun 24, 2009
4:26 PM
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I have dealt with this problem a few times and they were all young birds about the same age as yours. I would say "where is the hawk when you need 'em" LOL. If it is not caused by some birds pulling them down, I dont think you need to do anything, just let them mature. I feed my yougsters wheat when they are able to fly and that works for me. (Just a different method from Pauls). Years ago I fed 1 tablespoon per bird but then my birds were larger. Majority of my birds today are in the 7 ounce range (yes I weighed them) so I feed 1 teaspoon per bird. That usually is close to about a campbell soup or dog food can full. Just thought I would through that info in there.
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"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance -- it is the
illusion of knowledge."
Bayani
EZ Rollers (www.wacadoo.com)
B-Square Lofts
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Windjammer Loft
797 posts
Jun 24, 2009
4:59 PM
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Do as Paul suggests. I keep my youngsters on a good pigeon mix, like 16% until they are 6-8 months old. I feed 1 1/2 - 2cup per 10 birds. It seems to work for me.The youngsters need all the vitamins and protien they can get at this early age. Then I start to cut them back accordingly.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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toughrollers
155 posts
Jun 24, 2009
5:49 PM
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Hi TT
Tony how are you? I have tried this mix and it has done wonders to my kit birds when they are under 7 months old. This mix is as follows:-
30% wheat
25% milo
10% saflour
20% peas
15% pigeon pallets
With this mix you get:-
14% protein (for them to maintain their muscle);
60% carb (to give them enough energy for flying);
5% fat (so they don't go "light" on you as they need fat as they are growing babies).
I agree with Paul fhtfire for feeding pallets as the protein and vitamins get absored quickly.
This is a mix that I have had much success in maintaining my young kit birds.
Lots of luck
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Toughrollers--Lofts
Ralph
Last Edited by on Jun 24, 2009 5:50 PM
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TT
GOLD MEMBER
433 posts
Jun 24, 2009
6:21 PM
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Thanks for the input guys, much appreciated
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Tony...
"Color is not an option"
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TimP
184 posts
Jun 24, 2009
7:06 PM
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Feed them 14%, and fly them every other day for a while. Even if they only fly 250' they'll come around with some age.
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Scott
2253 posts
Jun 24, 2009
8:10 PM
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If they are youngsters don't worry about it, mine go through all kinds of phases, fly in the AM helps come Summer.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jun 24, 2009 8:10 PM
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macsrollers
111 posts
Jun 24, 2009
8:47 PM
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Good advice from the group. I don't think you have to go crazy on the high level protien mix, just use a good 12 to 14% mix. Another thing that Randy Gibson taught me. I was feeding all my kits in the morning after I flew them due to my work schedule and getting home usually later in the evening. Randy told me to feed my young birds about 1/2 to 2/3rd their ration in the morning, and then the rest about 12 hours before you are going to fly them. So I had my son start feeding them for me in the evening and this was a bid help on the low flying and also tight circling. This isn't a cure all, but it did help my young birds develop a better fly pattern and become more consistent on the average. Like Scott stated, young birds will go thru phases so you have to be patient with them. If you have the luxury of flying your young birds twice a day until they come in to the spin, then you can feed them a little after the first fly and the rest after the second fly. Also remember to factor in if they have been chased by the BOP's, severe weather changes, and it also sounds that you have been inconsistent with what and how you are feeding them as you have tried to cure your problem. Consistency in how and when you feed and fly your young bird team can be more important then what you feed them. Good luck and don't lose patience!
Don M. Mac's Roller LVRC NBRC QSDC
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Pumpkin Man
113 posts
Jun 25, 2009
5:53 AM
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I think also some families of birds are just prone to low flying. What's the background of your birds. You might try 1 cup Milo and 1 cup mix for 20 birds a few days and see if that helps. I like to gradually increase the Milo. You may end up having to make 2/3 of the ration Milo. Go up gradually though.
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PJ Jimmy
20 posts
Jun 25, 2009
10:57 PM
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feed them standard pigeon mix and vit min in water they should catch on
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Southplainsroller
14 posts
Jun 25, 2009
11:12 PM
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Ive been having problems with my ybs flying low as well, they fly tight goofy circles and only stay up 10mins or so. I went out of town for a week, and before hand they were flying 45 to and hour, now iam lucky to get 10mins out of them. its most likely the heat, i am ganna have to switch to AM flying because even at dusk its still too hot for them i think. Ive been feeding the a high protein mix, with some pellets.
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bigwilly
1009 posts
Jun 26, 2009
1:20 AM
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Keep flying. Young birds will fly low
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
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Windjammer Loft
805 posts
Jun 29, 2009
10:33 AM
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toughrollers...with the grains alone it looks like your birds are getting substantial amount fo vitaimins and protien the need. To me the pellets seems to be overkill. Maybe even too much for them...
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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Windjammer Loft
806 posts
Jun 29, 2009
10:38 AM
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Southplainsroller... did you have someone letting your birds out for the week you were gone?? Sounds like they just need to be put back in shape again.. Peep'em fed up and fly the feathers off of them. It shouldn;t take long to get them back on track...
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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cvr(FR3rd)
138 posts
Jun 29, 2009
3:04 PM
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i will still give them wheat works for me
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Fernando Ruelas
CVR
Ruelas loft
"the harder you work the harder it is to give up"
start strong maintain strength finish stronger... rajah football
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Southplainsroller
15 posts
Jun 29, 2009
4:16 PM
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Paul, I sure didnt, I considered that too, but five days of flying 5 mins and panting heavily I think it was the heat, I flew them today at day break and got 1 and half hours out of them :). They did much better, and climbed up to a good height. I appreciate the suggestion though.
Jake
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toughrollers
157 posts
Jun 29, 2009
8:25 PM
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Windjammer Lofts, Paul
As you have mentioned inregards to this mix which was as follows:-"........ 30% wheat, 25% milo, 10% saflour, 20% peas, 15% pigeon pallets. With this mix you get:-
14% protein (for them to maintain their muscle); 60% carb (to give them enough energy for flying); 5% fat (so they don't go "light" on you as they need fat as they are growing babies)..........."
I seem to believe by adding 15% (pallets) to the grain mix above it is only adding 1% extra protein to the mix. I agree with Paul fhtfire for feeding pellets as the protein and vitamins get absored quickly and the babies need it. Grains take longer to absorb as we all know.
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Toughrollers--Lofts
Ralph
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2009 8:30 PM
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DeepSpinLofts
1442 posts
Jun 29, 2009
8:48 PM
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Flying low has one major advantage which is: This will give you the opportunity to better observe your birds performance on a individual basis. How much time the birds will fly though will differ from family-to-family.
Keep adjusting the feed mixture (tweeking them) and soon the muscular and more stronger flying rollers will take up to higher heights in the air. It's all just a matter of time.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2009 8:50 PM
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toughrollers
158 posts
Jun 29, 2009
8:56 PM
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hi marcus,i agree with you. on your post1442.
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Toughrollers--Lofts
Ralph
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Electric-man
2380 posts
Jun 29, 2009
9:06 PM
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Good thread! Don't know how I missed it, but I wouldn't have started the one about flying in the heat.
Temps dropped about 5-10 degrees the last 3 days and my birds went right back to normal height. Supposed to go back up in the 100s tomorrow though.
Wished I could try morning flying, but we're starting work at 6 am to beat the heat ourselves.
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Val
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Electric-man
2381 posts
Jun 29, 2009
9:08 PM
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Val
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Scott
2276 posts
Jun 29, 2009
9:23 PM
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110 past two day here, time to switch oldest youngster kits to AM flying.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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roller alley
134 posts
Jun 29, 2009
9:24 PM
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TT,start also traing them with a flag(make it red) or a plastic bag tied on a pvc pipe (the sound is amazing),the flag will be like a fat girl wanting to sit by u in the bus,dam let me get the uck out,got it.start when training the young by chasing them out the kit box,as soon as you open the door the will jump out at you,when they gey low flag them,or swing the pvc and bag they will get the picture
it works for me.now kitting thats a diff, story LJ
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TT
GOLD MEMBER
437 posts
Jun 29, 2009
10:11 PM
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Things have changed a bit, Im flying them earlier and it seems to help, they are staying higher but not a while lot longer, About 20 min before they drop to about 100', ill be a little more patient and see what happens when they mature a bit more.
Again guys thanks for all the advice.
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Tony...
"Color is not an option"
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J_Star
1993 posts
Jun 30, 2009
4:55 AM
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Pellets provide grit to the birds so that you don't have to do it. Also provide other minerals and vitamins that the grains don’t.
Jay
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Pumpkin Man
122 posts
Jul 01, 2009
5:34 AM
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I've been experimenting with higher % of wheat versus higher percentage milo in comparison to standard mix. Mine had been doing about 30 minutes a day. I gave them the day off yesterday and increased the wheat to about 2/3 the ration (been upping it gradually) and they flew them about 3/4 of what they normally get and I got 1 hour of fly this morning. Had a lot of action out of them too.
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
411 posts
Jul 01, 2009
2:00 PM
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Have you flown them in the wind? I have a lot of wind were I fly, and I live on top of knoll. My birds have learned to fly behind the bluff out of the wind. I have had them come up from under me, get in the wind just 50 feet over my head, and break, the wind blowing them out over the knoll, and they get back to gether again at level to me. It is cool to watch.
I try not to fly in the wind if I do not have to, and thye have started to fly at a better hieght.
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RT Williams
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