toughrollers
161 posts
Jul 01, 2009
12:56 AM
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Need some opinions on what you all think about culling.
I personally have culled "hard". But doing so I am ending up with less birds. As children we bumped, fell, got injured and bruised but our parents never "Culled" us and I know I certainly didn't "cull" my children when injured or hurt.
I believe we are all individuals and unique, therefore the birds we are culling should be given a chance in individual breeding cages not in open loft. By doing this we know who the cock is and it shows exactly what they are capable of producing. In open loft breeding there is no way you can guanrantee who the cock is and that is a fact. Who knows we might get some star performers by doing this.
I say this as I have had some first hand experience in breeding dogs. I ordered a female pup, but when picking her up noticed her brother was the only one left because nobody liked his features and he was very shy. So I purchased him for half the price at $750. Within 12 months this dog had a complete turn around. I gave him his annual booster and the vet couldn't believe the quality of the dog and how perfect in all aspects he was. So I decided to take the dog to the german sheppard club and his breeder couldn't believe his eyes. He checked the tatoo in the ear to confirm it was his pup. He didn't believe that this was the same dog that nobody wanted.. Everyone at the club wanted the dog for breeding, so to cut a long story short I sold him for $4,500 by auction. He is now producing champions for the new owner.
......Hence I stress "Should We Cull" as this could easily be our birds that we are culling unecessarily. I dont only mean in "show wise" I also mean in performance.
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Toughrollers--Lofts
Ralph
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3504 posts
Jul 01, 2009
1:03 AM
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Cull sick or injured birds........I gotta rethink the children thing.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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LittleJohn
121 posts
Jul 01, 2009
3:11 AM
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Depends on how much time you have on your hands, and how much money is in your pocket to feed birds that dont work out.
First of all compare apples to apples.....dogs and pigeons....different evaluation techniques go for both of them.
Depending on what yur culling criteria may be...it is possible that you may be culling too hard...you didn't mention what you cull for.
I agree with culling the sick and injured. I also believe there are a few other reasons that it must be done, but each person has their own set of ideas.
LittleJohn
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1108 posts
Jul 01, 2009
4:19 AM
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Hey Ralph, I know everyone gets tired of hearing about my situational reasoning for maintaining a certain number of birds but that is what I have to do. My total is 50 birds that includes breeders and kit birds. I can't afford to keep birds I won't breed from or can't fly. I could not afford to feed extra birds even if I had the extra room.
That is not the only reasons however. A tree sitter will pull good birds down with it, so will an early landing bird.
Given the choice between a roll down (no matter how good) and one that doesn't I'll choose the safe bird.
Non kitting once started will be very hard to break, not impossible but the time and effort is better used on birds that kit.
Note: After reading katyrollers post, I agree and especially if they are moulting, good birds will do things when in the moult they would not do at any other time.
I also agree with Paul, coddling sick birds is a waste of time better used on the healthy. The exception would be a sick stock bird that is other wise valuable.
You can't keep them all or at least, I can't.
Thom
Last Edited by on Jul 01, 2009 6:35 AM
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katyroller
437 posts
Jul 01, 2009
5:41 AM
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There is a definite need for culling but I also believe that many fanciers are too quick to cull. In the past I culled birds for issues that I now look back on and have to honestly admit were caused by my mistakes. Alot of these birds were out of very good stock so I have to wonder how many great birds did I possibly cull? When culling birds these days I will definitely give the birds every chance to prove themselves but once they prove themselves to be culls, I do what has to be done.
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Windjammer Loft
808 posts
Jul 01, 2009
6:14 AM
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toughrollers.....Good post. You also choose a very "touchy" subject. I give you "props" for that. As mentioned before you are mixing apples & oranges. Childern..Dogs..Birds, their is "NO" comparison whatsoever..... I also have over 30yrs experience in the Canine field. I could give you many many examples of "cullings" I've done with them. But won't go into that here.
Back to the birds...lol Personelly I "only" cull sickly and weak birds or animals. I am a firm believer in only the strong survive. Nourishing sick or weak birds or animals back to health is not a good way to start off in any program...
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Jul 01, 2009 6:18 AM
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katyroller
438 posts
Jul 01, 2009
7:52 AM
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I will go back to my last post and clarify for any PETA folks that may be reading this, that culling does not always mean killing. I have and do take birds that do not fit into my program and offer them to other fanciers who can use. :)
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j .wanless
836 posts
Jul 01, 2009
8:51 AM
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hi all
im always reading about how you all seem to cull lots of birds.something i rarely do but do when i have to.
have you ever thought that maybe you are breeding too many or you are using the wrong birds to breed off.
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
407 posts
Jul 01, 2009
1:22 PM
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good post
I think that everyone has a limit to what we can keep. In some way those with BOP problems are lucky that they do not have to cull as many as others. The BOP's are helpful at that, unfortunatly they never take the bird you are planning to get rid of. lol
I have a limit, it is 100 birds, give or take a few. Last year was my first year, I obtained and/or breed about 30. When I reach that 100 limit I am done breeding this year.
I will be able to have an A team hold over kit of 30. That means I have to get rid of some by next breeding season. We all face this revolving pattern. Choose the best and get rid of the rest by whatever means you like.
It is an unfortunate part of the hobby. The real question is how long do you hold onto that bird. It has good parents, it's siblings are in the A team, it has no major faults, but not A team quality yet. you Need room, does it go out the door for the next generation, or can you find a place for him? If you hold onto him is it worth giving up a round off your best pair? or that experimant pair that would be nice to have 6 young to determine if they click well, instead of 4 young.
Of the 75 or so birds I breed this year only 25 will still be on my property come March 1st. At that time only the best will stay and the the breeders go back to work.
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RT Williams
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harrison
946 posts
Jul 01, 2009
3:38 PM
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I am not a big fan of the word culling.
I pass them on to someone who doest care for the way they perform.
He just lets them out and lets them sit about.
This week I passed a young bird on bcause all it kept doing was small spins but every single second and couldnt get nowere near the kit.
I tried to keep it in for a week and messd with its food but it just carried on the same.
This year I am taking my time and not rushing my birds to do anytg.
And there is a good reason for that.
Last year I bread a grizz hen and all it would do was flip.
I passd it on with about 15 more birds but this one came back.
So she has just been flying out with the few yearlings I kept back.
I have a west of england feather foot that belongs to my wife so I paired her to him and they have foster 2 rounds of young for me.
Well about a week ago I let some of my old hens out and seen this one bird rolling to its hearts content.
I noted it had 2 black tail feathers so when they came in I goes and checks the birds and it turns out to be the grizz hen.
I lets it out the next day and its just getting better.
It kits.
and gets back after rolling.
Everything I am looking for in a birmingham roller.
So I no if I had taken time with my yearlings I would have several more like this.
Thats why this year no matter what I am holding back on all my young birds for the full year at least.
Unless they are causing upsett to the kit and not been team players.
All I have from last year is 8 birds and they are realy good birds.
I am happy with that number seen as last year was my firts breeding season with good stock.
Like I said I would have had more had I not rushed into it.
After the last few come from the breeders next week I will have around 45 birds and that is plenty to play around with.
i would say if I carnt make up a great A TEAM out of them 45 birds then I have the wrong line or am doing somthing wrong.
My problem is I am one of them guys when I see a bird doing so well and realy turning it on I lose my balls and pull the bird and lock it down.
I no that If I mwish to have a great team I need to stop doing this but at the moment my city doesnt have a local club and the club i am in the all england club only flys once a year.
so I aint in no rush to put out a world class team for my own personal enjoyment.
I would rather pull them and keep them back hoping that one day I can get in a club and no that I have good birds that I have put away.
I dont want to risk losing them to the birds of prey when I dont need to.
If I was competing then yes its all birds out.
but at the moment I am doing ok.
I will still put a great team out for myself and friends and come next year the all england yearling fly.
I never made the flys this year due to breeding late on but next year its young and yearling flys for me and I carnt wait.
sorry if I have gone off the subject a bit .
thanks for reading.
yours in roll harrison.
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toughrollers
163 posts
Jul 01, 2009
5:12 PM
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Hi fellows:-
I would just like to point out that when I say "Culling" I didn't actually mean to "Chop their necks off or to kill". I just simply meant that we should be picky in which one's we weed out. I understand that "dogs" and pigeons are different but that was just a comparison made.
Your comments and points are noted. Thanks
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Toughrollers--Lofts
Ralph
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harrison
951 posts
Jul 02, 2009
12:16 PM
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When you exspress the word culling people asume you mean termanating the bird from the stock due to been unwell or not upto your stocks standards.
cheers harry
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harrison
952 posts
Jul 02, 2009
12:18 PM
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Hi ralph.
Sorry I didnt realize it was your name on the post above my last one.
Of course you no what culling means.
anyway just trying to help.LOL.
yours harry
Last Edited by on Jul 02, 2009 12:19 PM
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gotspin7
2443 posts
Jul 02, 2009
3:44 PM
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Great post Toughrollers. I agree! I let the young develop before I start removing birds from the property.
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Sal Ortiz
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