yang501424
322 posts
Jul 19, 2009
2:31 PM
|
Scott after your experience with this regretfully purchase of the nieble birds, what are your comments for someone who sells bird for a high price? I know that there are many out there who are just feather merchant but I don't think that its 100%. If it was a 100% you can accuse anyone and be right but the fact that its not 100% do you think that you have to know that person or seen his bird fly before making any comment? I gotta say were pretty quick to attack on this topic because of your previous mistake.
Ok you said that it wasn't management that was the problem with these birds. Lets say that the rumor isn't true and these birds were the real McCoy then you must of flown some awesome spinners and gave them away because it wasn't worth breeding excellent spinners, isn't thats what we all strive for? maybe not you. I have never seen neible bird fly before but the reason why I say excellent and awesome is because if he didn't have excellent and awesome he wouldn't be a hall of fame and a champion of champions. Its a part of history you can't take it away or add to it.
Or is it that the Billing birds were much better then the nieble birds? I don't want to bring up facts again on the worldcup site because it'd be to easy to determine who has the better birds by score sheet but I know you have seen the best of the billing but have you seen nieble's bird at his house? Is there anyone that have seen both of these folks bird flown and can comment on them. If not don't even try to attempt too.
Another thing is that the person who you bought your birds from, you will probably never fly a kit as good as theres. For example the Easley's birds, Eldon Cheney who has judged nation wide many times commented that from what he seen the people who flys Easley does not even come close to what Ken flys at his house. And I believe this applys to many of the family out there. Don't start to accuse me of that you can't fly better then they can because it wasn't what I said. Do you think that its the bird or the manager of the bird that can't get these birds to do what they do at the original owners house?
----------
Good Game Loft
|
yang501424
323 posts
Jul 19, 2009
2:46 PM
|
O yeah I forgot to add if those birds were excellent spinners I would of paid you 50 cents for it since no birds are worth $500.00 LOL.
Also Scott If I wanted to buy your best stock bird and you didn't want to sell it so I had to offer you $2000.00 for the pair for you to sell it to me, do you think that its worth $2000.00? I bet if this really happens there would be so many people to attack this pair that it wasn't worth $2000.00 and if it wasn't you that I bought it from would you be be in on the attack also?
----------
Good Game Loft
|
yang501424
324 posts
Jul 19, 2009
3:15 PM
|
One last post before taking a nap, on Ken Easley's webpage his bird 1301 he said that its the best bird he seen in the country. He said he rejected a $1000.00 offer for the bird. Just recently he was thinking of retiring from rollers and offer'd his whole stock loft (which consist of about 20 something breeders) with some kit birds for about 9 or 10 thousand bucks to one of my friend. Last year someone I know bought about 1 thousand dollars worth of young birds (all unflown) at 50 bucks a piece and after handling these birds, alot of them showed a weak back. He then went and bought some proven birds and handle them and they were totally different. This is true not makeup. My question is did Ken pick out the birds he didn't like and sold them or did he just randoming threw bird in the box or should he had picked the ones he would be proud of? Im not a pigeon seller so I don't know anything about how this should be done But Tony if you read this I also want to ask you something. First of all Don't get me wrong that Im saying that your doing what Ken does but those rubys that you sell do you try your best by handling them first and picking out the ones you will be proud of? I know that you won't be able to tell a bird in the air by just handling it but the main question is do you "attempt" to send out the ones that you will be proud of. My guess is you do because Im sure you breed alot more rubys but we only see so much for sale and have had a good percentage feedbacks. of course you keep some for yourself.
----------
Good Game Loft
Last Edited by on Jul 19, 2009 3:17 PM
|
kham89
257 posts
Jul 19, 2009
3:29 PM
|
Ying interesting....les contact Ken Easley lol...why make guesses wen we can get the answer from the dude....Ying who has 1301 now? does ken still have it? or is kou gettin it?
----------
Kham Thao
(0_o)Short NinJa Loft(o_0)
|
yang501424
325 posts
Jul 19, 2009
4:37 PM
|
Kham I haven't made any guesses for Ken it was either a question or a fact. I think Ken still has it but I can careless who has it. And If Kou has it I'll quit this hobby now. LOL
----------
Good Game Loft
|
kham89
258 posts
Jul 19, 2009
6:10 PM
|
LMAO man too funny. Ying in your definition what makes someone a feather merchant??
----------
Kham Thao
(0_o)Short NinJa Loft(o_0)
|
Good Times Roll
50 posts
Jul 19, 2009
6:27 PM
|
heres another e-mail from Herb
RL
I avoid mating that close unless the pair is begging for it. 5588 and 1207 were begging!!
9757 on 213 would probably be terrific, but I'm still looking to find something just slightly less "close". A good hen off 213 would be more appealing to me. Breeding excessively close leaves little room for error. Most of the really close matings I've made have been less successful than the family bred birds that are cousins and double second cousins or something.
But I don't look at the relation between the birds as much as I look at the performance. Last year I had 234 down on eggs with 2010 before I realized it was his mother. They were very compatible in the air.
Herb
|
Good Times Roll
51 posts
Jul 19, 2009
7:28 PM
|
p.s. I agree Scott
|
yang501424
326 posts
Jul 19, 2009
9:53 PM
|
Kham I was just joking had to laugh a few or else Im really getting out of the hobby.
----------
Good Game Loft
|
kham89
259 posts
Jul 19, 2009
9:56 PM
|
LOL
----------
Kham Thao
(0_o)Short NinJa Loft(o_0)
|
Scott
2388 posts
Jul 20, 2009
12:15 PM
|
Scott after your experience with this regretfully purchase of the nieble birds, what are your comments for someone who sells bird for a high price?
( if someone is willing to pay it, more power to them, but the fact is it is probably a waste of money for the buyer, the best advice that I can give to to buy a round of squeks off of someone,this way they aren't cherry picked, no one is selling their best that are prooven out in the air or the stock loft )
I know that there are many out there who are just feather merchant but I don't think that its 100%. If it was a 100% you can accuse anyone and be right but the fact that its not 100% do you think that you have to know that person or seen his bird fly before making any comment?
(reputation and acheivments over the years go a long long way,and of course developing a relationship would certainly help, myself I put little stock in non-flyers of the major flys)
I gotta say were pretty quick to attack on this topic because of your previous mistake.
Ok you said that it wasn't management that was the problem with these birds. Lets say that the rumor isn't true
(what rumor would that be ? )
and these birds were the real McCoy then you must of flown some awesome spinners and gave them away because it wasn't worth breeding excellent spinners, isn't thats what we all strive for? maybe not you. I have never seen neible bird fly before but the reason why I say excellent and awesome is because if he didn't have excellent and awesome he wouldn't be a hall of fame and a champion of champions. Its a part of history you can't take it away or add to it.
( I don't have a clue what you are trying to say above, in regards to that pair I had, they were obviously poor examples of that family and in no way shape or form did I shape an opinion of that family from that one pair, that would be naive.)
Or is it that the Billing birds were much better then the nieble birds? I don't want to bring up facts again on the worldcup site because it'd be to easy to determine who has the better birds by score sheet but I know you have seen the best of the billing but have you seen nieble's bird at his house?
( Billings has prooven this family out to hang with the best along with others in both major flys more than a few times ( as has a few other families)for me the difference being from the Neibles was the access to countless birds to sort through in the beginning to find the right "few" to build around , this is where most loose it, you yourself gotta find the right few birds)
Is there anyone that have seen both of these folks bird flown and can comment on them. If not don't even try to attempt too.
Another thing is that the person who you bought your birds from, you will probably never fly a kit as good as theres. For example the Easley's birds, Eldon Cheney who has judged nation wide many times commented that from what he seen the people who flys Easley does not even come close to what Ken flys at his house. And I believe this applys to many of the family out there.
( What you wrote above is false,it is all about dedication ,stock sence,and mastering a feel for the breed ,this weeds out most as it takes many many years to even stratch the surface of this breed, it is a very complex breed)
Don't start to accuse me of that you can't fly better then they can because it wasn't what I said. Do you think that its the bird or the manager of the bird that can't get these birds to do what they do at the original owners house?
(It is both, the birds and management)
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 20, 2009 12:35 PM
|
yang501424
327 posts
Jul 20, 2009
12:50 PM
|
Scott here is what you said the rumor was
"I question that now as I later heard rumor that the birds I received were not the same that neible had selected for the auction " the reason why you were so lost because you forgot what you said.
Of course it takes absolutely long to master the breed and I was responding to Joe's statement. "The late Dick Belew of Wichita, KS had a lot of "514" birds that he got from Herb Sparkes. I never saw anything that I would spend 50 cents for let alone $500" it seems like he was judging Herb at what he saw at dick's house. If he didn't, he didn't have to use Herbs name and the $500 price. Do you think Dick has master that breed yet? The reason for my statement about no one has flown Ken's bird better then he has because no one has master his bird like he has and do you think this goes the same with Herb?
----------
Good Game Loft
|
yang501424
328 posts
Jul 20, 2009
12:57 PM
|
Scott I knew that one of the reason you let go of the nieble was the access to them but just didn't mention it. Thats why i only have 1 family that Im working with. It takes time, room and money to keep many families going and its not worth just keeping 1 pair of many families.
----------
Good Game Loft
|
yang501424
329 posts
Jul 20, 2009
1:19 PM
|
reputation and acheivments over the years is very important but nothing beats and is more accurate then going to the person's house and seeing it for yourself.
"no one is selling their best that are prooven out in the air or the stock loft" Ken is selling his best and proven. You see 193 on ken's site? he name that bird champion and if you talk to him that bird has produce many fine birds and he sold it for 1500.00 thats what i heard not sure if its true but the bird is SOLD!
----------
Good Game Loft
Last Edited by on Jul 20, 2009 1:36 PM
|
Scott
2389 posts
Jul 20, 2009
2:31 PM
|
Yang , maybe I need to get a website & start pumping up my birds more LOL LOL
(reputation and acheivments over the years is very important but nothing beats and is more accurate then going to the person's house and seeing it for yourself.
"no one is selling their best that are prooven out in the air or the stock loft" Ken is selling his best and proven. You see 193 on ken's site? he name that bird champion and if you talk to him that bird has produce many fine birds and he sold it for 1500.00 thats what i heard not sure if its true but the bird is SOLD!)
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
yang501424
330 posts
Jul 20, 2009
4:29 PM
|
Scott your a master flier maybe you'll do well :). I'll even chant you too to get the momentum going. Actually you are already half way there to think of it LOL I saw your post on roller world in the forsale page or is that the other Scott Campbell. I say about 80% of the birds you see on Ken's site is sold already. A good number of them for 5bill each.
----------
Good Game Loft
Last Edited by on Jul 20, 2009 4:31 PM
|
DeepSpinLofts
1511 posts
Jul 20, 2009
4:48 PM
|
Top Finishers in 2007
1 Heine Bijker Holland
2 Dean Forster North East England
3 Kevin McKinney Northern Ireland
4 David Vang Northern California Central
5 Aris Punla Northern California Central
6 Gert Du Plessis South Africa
7 Baines & Mosely Derby Region
8 Cedomir Luburic Serbia Region
9 Don Ouellette Northern California Coast Region
10 Keary Boone North Central Region
NOTE: Some of these flyers will not even sell your their birds. Your offer them $2,000 for their best and they might get insulted.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
|
Scott
2390 posts
Jul 20, 2009
4:58 PM
|
Yang, is Ken selling his stock ? I know that his flying conditions are impossible at his current location and his effort is going to his racers.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
467 posts
Jul 20, 2009
5:11 PM
|
Yang,
You are partially correct, I was judging Herb's birds not Herb, based on what I saw numerous times at Dick's house. He was proud that he had paid big bucks for the birds because they had the pedigrees. The performance was mediocre at best, I rated it as deep with poor quality. Sorry but I call them as I see them. Guess you can build a shrine too. I say again, a feather merchant is a feather merchant regardless of the price of his birds!!
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
kham89
260 posts
Jul 20, 2009
5:59 PM
|
true Marcus
----------
Kham Thao
(0_o)Short NinJa Loft(o_0)
|
yang501424
331 posts
Jul 20, 2009
7:02 PM
|
Joe I did mean Herb's bird but just didn't put the bird in because I thought you would know, because Dick wasn't flying Herb himself he was flying his birds.
Marcus the 2000.00 was just a amount of money for example. I know dave would sell it for 2g his cock bird is hitting and missing and you would put a smile on his face for a long time LOL. Now anyone would give in for any large amount of money $20,000.00 we may say?
But the point Im trying to get across is people say why is Herb's bird so expensive and is it worth $500.00? Everyone saw the email Herb sent to RL saying that he doesn't sell birds but the reason why the price is so high so that he can keep the bird. Lets say I bought Heine Bijker best pair for 20 grand. Do you think Herb and Heine would share in common that both would say they didn't want to sell the birds and the reason why the price is so high is so they can keep the birds? Im not defending Herb or anything like that because its Herb but it so happens to be him. I would of say the same thing if its Scott LOL.
----------
Good Game Loft
|
yang501424
332 posts
Jul 20, 2009
7:09 PM
|
Scott about Ken's stock I don't know much but from what I was told and seen Ken's has sold many of his stock already and probably has more. He also has many young birds to sell I know because he isn't keeping anything he bred this year.
So Joe how do you know that the performance of Dick's bird were at mediocre best? You been to Herb's house and seen his so you can compare? Or were you making a guess that it was mediocre at best.
----------
Good Game Loft
|
DeepSpinLofts
1514 posts
Jul 20, 2009
9:58 PM
|
$20,000.00 in U.$. Currency Yang?
Heck... I will sell all my birds for that much! I'm sure there's a couple of really good ones in the lot.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
|
yang501424
334 posts
Jul 20, 2009
10:03 PM
|
Marcus I was only using those numbers as an example. Bruce Cooper was a millionaire so Im pretty sure he had no problem buying birds from Bill Pensom. Money has the ability to control people.
----------
Good Game Loft
Last Edited by on Jul 20, 2009 10:04 PM
|
kham89
263 posts
Jul 21, 2009
11:31 AM
|
I would not spend 20,0000 on birds lmao jus my opinion...I got a better way to spend it...but i take that 20k any day lol
----------
Kham Thao
(0_o)Short NinJa Loft(o_0)
|
3757
1271 posts
Jul 21, 2009
1:47 PM
|
Ying - I looked over the Don Hearns records and Dick Belew crossed his stock onto Frank Lavin, Ardan C. Bayless and others (I will scan it for you). He only had a few birds from Herb around three or four according to what Herb told me. The pedigrees show a lot of Ardan C. Bayless back onto Hearn and Sparkes. I think someone recently stated it is erroneous to judge on just a few birds but that probably only holds true when they do it. Ying, that is why it is important to understand the entire story and most, just like politicians, give you a cow manure response. If it was not for Bill Pensom Americans would be flying high flying tumblers like they did for 70 years before he showed them otherwise.
Last Edited by on Jul 21, 2009 5:55 PM
|
DeepSpinLofts
1519 posts
Jul 21, 2009
1:55 PM
|
Good afternoon LaRon.
Hope all is well with the intellectually captivating book and everything.
Can't wait to get my hands on a copy!
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
|
yang501424
335 posts
Jul 21, 2009
2:32 PM
|
Thanks for sharing LaRon. Records are always better then guesses.
----------
Good Game Loft
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
474 posts
Jul 21, 2009
5:54 PM
|
Laron,
Scan it for me because I don't believe it. A. I don't know who Don Hearn is and B. Dick never said anything about birds from Frank Lavin. In fact at one time he told me everything in his breeding loft was from Herb Sparks.
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
3757
1272 posts
Jul 21, 2009
5:58 PM
|
I tell you what Joe. Lets bet 1,000 bucks that Ardan C Bayless and Don Hearn is on the pedigree on this forum to make it legal Joe? I just spoke to Herb today on the same issue and I am pretty sure he knows what he sold to Dick. Three/four birds.
Last Edited by on Jul 21, 2009 6:00 PM
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
475 posts
Jul 21, 2009
6:13 PM
|
I am sure that Dick had some Bayless birds at some time, which by the way all went back to Rottenbacher,Plona, JL Smith and Pensom. Some of my old Vaughn birds have Arden's birds behind them also, everyone in this part of the country had some Bayless in their birds. I don't know anything about Don Hearn birds as Dick never mentioned him. He showed me some pedigrees that had a lot of Sparks and Pensom on them. At one time he said he had all Sparks bloodline. I don't have any records as I never took any birds from him. Didn't care for their rolling style.
As far as your $1000 dollar bet, that is a cheap stunt and beneath you.
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
Last Edited by on Jul 21, 2009 6:13 PM
|
3757
1273 posts
Jul 21, 2009
6:18 PM
|
Joe - You may be correct but as a Christian man now I felt the same way about the shrine statement! I never put anything to print unless I can back up the statements. Herb was generous to some people who benefited from his generosity and they even stole birds from him. Then they make BS statements and do not even know him. I do defend old Bill and would defend you also if it was a crock as many of these guys criticism of other people is unwarranted. This is not against you but sometimes the logic sucks in my opinion when they make these statements. Ever since I was a young man I was about truth(not bragging)!
Last Edited by on Jul 21, 2009 9:25 PM
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
476 posts
Jul 21, 2009
6:21 PM
|
Okay, You are right. I apologize, it was a cheap shot.
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
3757
1274 posts
Jul 21, 2009
6:41 PM
|
Joe - I meant no harm about the $1000 bet. Also, the Don Hearn stuff he used was down from 1233 and the 2564 bloodline from Lavin. I had no idea what the Arden C. Bayless bloodline was so thanks for that information. Paul Vaughn and I spoke many times and he was an awesome man in my book.
|
Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
477 posts
Jul 21, 2009
6:53 PM
|
Laron,
I understand, we all sometimes say things in the heat of the moment and then regret it. Arden Bayless was from Topeka, KS and had an outstanding line of Blue Bars that went back to Bill Pensom, JL Smith, Stan Plona and Hans Rottenbacher. Guys all over the midwest went to him to get birds so it would not surprise me that Dick had some birds of that blood. You are right, Paul Vaughn was an awesome man and very generous with his birds, especially us former soldiers. He kind of took me under his wing and gave me some of the best he had. But more than his birds, I value his friendship and advice.
Like I said I know nothing of the Don Hearn line of birds, don't think I have ever heard of him before. Frank Lavin of course everyone knows or should know.
Best to you and yours.
Respectfully,
Joe
----------
Keep em Spinning
Joe
|
DeepSpinLofts
1564 posts
Aug 31, 2009
12:03 PM
|
There are 2 things that fundamentally comes to mind when genetically breeding (selective mating) performing pigeons.
1) Will the offspring from a particular Cock+Hen mating be better aerial performers than their ancestors?
....or
2) Will the offspring from a particular Cock+Hen be unsatisfactory for progeneration through procreation due to a disappointment in aerial performance levels?
[Will the rollers young be quality aerial performers good enough to stock & breed]
Hmm... interesting.
NOTE: Ken Easley & W.H. Pensom stated that you can utilize practically every bird in your loft.
....however
I'm not quite sure if this is in reference towards genetic breeding purposes. For Pensom had several types of pigeons including Modenas.
....moving on
Quote from Mr. Easley: "There is not a bird in the loft that cannot be used in the breeding pen if you know how to use them."
{P.S.} Keep in mind that Easley is being exclusive of rolldowns, for these types are definitely not recommended for biogenetic breeding plans (use in the breeding pen).
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
|
l.h.559
74 posts
Aug 31, 2009
12:18 PM
|
man guy it only a bird come on ....why get fire up for....ya little kid or what..........lmao.....u know...
l.h.559 aka long her......remember the name....
|
fresnobirdman
644 posts
Sep 01, 2009
9:50 AM
|
long her,
its not the bird here,lol
their talking about waisting money one trash..
-fou
|