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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
questions regarding feeding youngsters
questions regarding feeding youngsters
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steve49
83 posts
Jul 16, 2009
1:28 PM
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now that i've got my young bird kit of 19 going good (since last thursday, 7-09) i notice that they're getting a bit picky about the grain they're eating. the first few days i was only feeding them one tblspoon per bird, which i later found out wasn't enough. now that i've increased it to whatever they want, i see them picking at what they like, rather than grab any and all that's near them. is this ok? and how long should i let them eat whatever they want (after they've trapped)? they only flew maybe 6-9 minutes today, the first bird landing after 6 minutes, and the last after 9 minutes. this is after their first day of allowing them to eat all they want. i'm curious if they'll fly a bit longer each day with them eating all they want.
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3196 posts
Jul 16, 2009
2:36 PM
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Steve I have 17 young one's just went up at 7 weeks old I gave them up till 8 weeks now they flying 45 minutes trapping and all I feed them three hands full after they had their first fly at 5 pm I let them out again they fly 30 to 45 I call them down and wait 10 minutes and feed them 1 cup and half..if tomorrow they take their time trapping after the morning fly I still give them their 3 handsfull but at evening they get one cup.the most I go down to is a half of cup which is one table spoon for each..soon as I get there attention again I start going up again on the ration.they tell me what they need by the way they respond .. my birds get all they want but only if they respecting my wishes like trapping fast .not being lazy.not banking on trees or what have you..see you have to rememeber the feed is the only way to control your birds.. some birds are made lazy by feeding too much..so you have to be careful..
you have to experience with your birds by seeing what happens tomorrow if the are fed all they want..let us know..good luck..
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Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1199 posts
Jul 16, 2009
2:36 PM
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Hey Steve, I think I might have caused a little confusion in my worry that young birds are being underfed. I don't think it is necessary to starve your birds to get them to respond and behave as you wish. Bringing an established kit to a fine edge for comp. is different then training young birds to home and kit. This is the method I use for my young birds. If I am going to fly more then once a day then after the first fly, I feed 1/3 ration of their expected full ration. For a kit of approximately 20 birds this is 1/2 tablespoon per bird. I feed a mix augmented with pellets. I feel that the pellets are easily digested and provide the necessary nutrition. After the second fly, I feed the rest of their daily allotment. I deliberately give them more feed then I think they need. I watch them as they eat and when the first bird goes to water or they start standing around in the pan, I pull the feed. Any very young are felt in their crop to insure they got their share. If I think they need more then I will place them in a seperate area and allow them additional time. With young birds in particular measuring their feed will not, in my opinion be enough. I hope this helps. Perhaps someone with more experience will chime in.
Thom
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steve49
84 posts
Jul 16, 2009
3:04 PM
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Ralph, your birds are much younger than mine, but thanx for your explanation. i am not sure exactly how long i'm going to do this, as i'm not entirely sure how well they'll be flying and for how long. 7 or 8 minutes maybe ok for only one week flying, but i'm not going to have that two weeks from now. they need to fly at least 30 minutes, and i'll use the flag if i have to.
Thom, i tried the 1/3, 2/3 for the weekend flys, and it worked fine. during the week i'm only flying in the afternoon, around 3:30pm, which i may push later as its still sunny and hot. i suppose i could fly around 6, or a bit later, but today's forecast was for showers late, so i wanted to get their fly in. either way, i'm ok with what you said about splitting their ration. however, i did listen to others telling me about letting them eat all they want after they trap, as they're still only around 3 months, with a few younger(still squeaking). the older birds i'm watching carefully, as the males are starting to be interested in the girls. this only happens if they've flown, and i let them cool down before calling them in. actually, yesterday i let them bum so they could bathe before dinner. so they flew, then bathed, and the after they sunned themselves, i called them in. today, they trapped a bit slower, but as soon as the first bird trapped, they all followed except for one straggler. she sat on the kitbox for 10 minutes! i was going to pull the feed, but as i was walking towards the kitbox, she trapped and was eating. i had already stopped whistling as they all went in except the one bird. i'm pretty sure this is due to their increased feed.
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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Rob408
97 posts
Jul 16, 2009
3:06 PM
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How much are you feeding them now?
It sounds like they're being overfed. Don't get me wrong, I agree that youngbirds should not be starved by any means. However, I would getthem hungry enough that they don't get picky with their grain. Once they get used to all the grains, then you can increase/decrease as you please, but I believe that all birds, specially young birds, need to get all of the grains in their feed. If they get picky, cut back for a day or two until they leave the feed tray clean then start increasing. Good luck.
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lil_jess
156 posts
Jul 16, 2009
3:12 PM
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I'm with Rob408...
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Home of the Admiration Of Flying Performing Pigeon...
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1202 posts
Jul 16, 2009
4:42 PM
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Steve, Not to be smart but please reread what Ralph said. Don't be in such a hurry. I t sounds to me like you are on the right track. If anything just cut back a tiny bit on their feed. One slow trapping youngster is a problem many would be happy to have. :) I fly my kits separated by sex, it's just a lot easier. If they are to young to sex then fly them like they are all hens but when the boys start being boys, seperate them.
Thom
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steve49
85 posts
Jul 16, 2009
5:58 PM
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ok, i'll try to be more precise. up till tuesday, i was feeding 1 tbsp per bird. of course, i was concerned about the short time they were flying, with some not flying at all, just sitting on the kitbox. so, i came here as usual, and some recommended increasing their feed, as young birds should really be getting what they want to insure proper development. wednesday i allowed them to eat all they wanted, and then removed their feed as soon as the last bird finished. when they only flew for less than 10 minutes, i was concerned. i thought more food equates more energy to fly longer. i'm sure its not that simple, but i'm new to this, so after observing them tonite being selective, i figured i'd have to cut their rations a bit. i should ask, when do young birds start flying 30 minutes or more? am i getting ahead of myself? these birds have only been flying one week, and that did include flying twice sat and sunday.
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3198 posts
Jul 16, 2009
6:03 PM
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Steve you said as i'm not entirely sure how well they'll be flying and for how long. 7 or 8 minutes maybe ok for only one week flying, but i'm not going to have that two weeks from now. they need to fly at least 30 minutes, and i'll use the flag if I have to".
My point the feed is the control to everything in these birds I don't starve my birds but I mess with their minds they still get their rations that their body needs ..you see my birds when they first start up they give 5 minutes next day with the right temperature on their side they give me 7 or 8 minutes the next day 10 and 20 the following it never goes by weekly but by days.you pay attention to their beaks when they come down I do it with my binoculars if I see their beaks open in the air I call them fast..but I don't really have that problem because I fly when the air is cool in the AM..and my birds have wind and love to fly.. but like you said its time to use the flag just be careful its a tool like the feed is..but if you feed your birds all they want and flag them get ready for anything to happen.one or two day of control with feed will not harm your birds until you see what they do and what you want. I always give me my birds free week when first flying them you fly if you want but after that is my week no more babying them its time to fly..don't force them to give 30 get 20 at first and be happy at that..you are going right you are getting the itch I can tell.that's because you know its time..pay attention to them they will tell you now..
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Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
Last Edited by on Jul 16, 2009 6:05 PM
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steve49
87 posts
Jul 16, 2009
6:30 PM
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Ralph, thanx for your insight. i did notice some birds were breathing hard (beaks open upon landing) so now i realize that i can't push them if its hot, and i should have waited an hour or more (say around 6) to fly, so they'd be hungrier. i flew them today at 3:30. i get so damn anxious when i get home to get them working ;). i think i'll cut back a bit on the feed, and wait a couple of hours more so time will help me by having them more hungry.
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3201 posts
Jul 16, 2009
6:41 PM
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There you go Steve..that is what Thom is trying to tell you by saying patience and to reread my post .
you going to be the kitmaster but you must first learn to read your birds.this way you know when to drop the flag when using it..when to feed because they flying too low.when to take a tablespoon away so they don't fly too high or trap in on time-...the good thing is you caught your self when you said you are getting anxious.once you learn your weekness and correct them you will be flying a good team before you know it..---------
Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
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steve49
88 posts
Jul 16, 2009
6:49 PM
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Ralph, you're the best. thanx for taking the time to help me out, and Thom too! the only bad thing about getting back into birds at 59 is i've missed so much, and i've got to play catch up and learn as much as possible so i'm flying my birds at their best. i really had no idea how much kit management is going to play in getting a great kit to perform. i've got what i think are some great birds. Mike Rose took 7th overall in the world cup, and i hope my work here will make him proud. he assured me i'd be competing in the fall and the birds would shine. he should only know how much i'll have to 'earn' that, by teaching myself along with my birds.
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3204 posts
Jul 16, 2009
9:08 PM
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Steve you welcome I have been reading your post and notice you was going well and getting good advise so I just step out but then I notice you was getting anxious and was about to trip on your next foot step. I just had to jump in and get a hold of you .these birds do take alot of kit management to get them going in the right direction but that is the fun part. I had flown and train birds since ten yrs old but nothing like the birmingham roller this is a real challenge..the birds I had were canadian high flyers ,flights.. that was easy just select them right, train them to fly for hours sit and watch them kit and fly in circles sometime 5 or 8 hours. until I got my hands on the rollers wow the learning never stops.I too have alot to catch up ten yrs with these birds still I have nothing.I spend 5 yrs with birds that was not worth having.but I learn the hard way and I learn to have patience, and quality is what I'm looking for not quantity.. so I just don't breed to anything.but one day I know I will look up to the sky and with a big smile on my face and say hey I might be 85 but I did it :)so don't worry I'm behind too...just enjoy the trip.... maybe one day we both meet up and be looking up..stay kool..
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Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
Last Edited by on Jul 16, 2009 9:09 PM
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macsrollers
141 posts
Jul 16, 2009
10:44 PM
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Good advice given. Thom hit it on the nose. Be Patient! With very young birds it is more a mental thing on the feed then physical. You must feed them enough to keep them healthy and strong but not too much so that they think they are still hungry. At one week you should be happy that they are homed in and at least getting around the yard. Too much feed can make them lazy and they don't want to fly. Too little can make them physically weak and they won't fly. Randy Gibson taught me also to feed my young birds about say 2/3rds what they need after flying and then the rest about 12 hours before flying them again. This helped quite a bit with my young birds as they seemed to feel much better when feeding them this way instead of giving them one full ration right after they flew. They seem much more happy and active flying and having fun, instead of thinking more about landing and being scared because I was flagging them up all the time. Whatever you do try to be consistent in your feed and fly times. Sometimes this is more important with young birds then what you are actually feeding them. Good luck and you are getting good advice that I wish I would have gotten more of when I started out. Enjoy your next fly! Don M. LVRC QSDC NBRC
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3208 posts
Jul 17, 2009
9:00 AM
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Don well said.."Whatever you do try to be consistent in your feed and fly times. Sometimes this is more important with young birds then what you are actually feeding them"
Don how your kid is doing? I know you missing him..
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Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
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steve49
91 posts
Jul 17, 2009
4:15 PM
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thanx again guys. so this begs another question, is it ok to fly once a day during the week, due to working, and twice a day during the weekend? and Don, good point about being well fed and lazy, maybe i'm thinking my birds SHOULD be flying longer because i'm feeding all they want, but instead i may be making them lazier since they're less hungry. today, i flew them about 6pm, instead of 3:30. it was cooler out, and they'd be a little hungrier, even though they had their fill the night before.
an interesting idea, about giving part of their normal food after flying, and 12 hours later the rest. i can do that before i go to work.
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1217 posts
Jul 17, 2009
4:48 PM
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Steve, I think that flying schedule would work fine for young birds. Remember though older birds will need a little more rest. Feeding them a part of their ration in the morning will sustain them through the day. I think you will start to see longer fly times because they have the energy and are not constantly thinking of food. Yet they will fly longer and still trap in a timely manner. I know I sound like a broken record but try and have a little patience. I don't know the man you got your birds from and I certianly do not mean to criticize but I find it a bit unrealistic to tell you, you would compete your first year. I'm not questioning the quality of your stock, it's just that it takes longer to get to know your birds and their potential and of course to hone your management skills. :)
Thom
Last Edited by on Jul 17, 2009 4:50 PM
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macsrollers
144 posts
Jul 17, 2009
9:58 PM
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Steve, glad you are learning from the post. Don't make too many changes at once as you won't know what worked and didn't. Sutle adjustments one at a time will get you best results.
Hi Ralph, my son is still at home until mid-August. Then we go to Hawaii and he will attend the Univ. of Hawaii. Look forward to seeing the roller guys there and they have reached out to my post and will be fun. Tough to have your son on another island for 4 years, especially when he is also my best friend and Roller buddy. He makes more common and practical sense on breeding, stocking, etc. because I am too analytical. That's why my posts are usually long! Thanks for asking! Don M.
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RodSD
286 posts
Jul 18, 2009
12:23 AM
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I think once pigeons start choosing which grains to eat, they are already full.
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steve49
94 posts
Jul 18, 2009
12:26 PM
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Don, good point about not changing too many things at once, otherwise i won't know what worked and what didn't. for now, i am going to feed 2/3 of their feed at their afternoon/evening fly. then, before i leave for work, i'll give them the rest (1/3). i'll do this for at least one week, before i consider any adjustments. this is basically what a weekend schedule is if i'm flying them twice, 1/3of their feed after morning fly, and the rest, 2/3 after their second fly.
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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