Anonymous
Guest
Mar 18, 2004
5:58 PM
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I noticed that the survey on this site for rolling styles didn't mention the 'A' style roller. The majority of voters indicated that the 'H' style was preferred over the inverted () style. Where does the 'A' style roller fit in? Is it better or worse than the 'H' style? Is it better or worse than the () style? Why?
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
45 posts
Mar 18, 2004
8:26 PM
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It's all a matter of opinion. In some circles () is the absolute ultimate while in others it means nothing to them. I think you will hear more folks in agreement that H is very much above average. An A pattern, in my opinion, is right there with H. Some will argue it is closer to () while others will argue that it tends to make the rolling action appear a little unbalanced with the bottom end of the wings opened up so much as compared to the top. It can make the roll appear larger than if it were an H or () pattern. In the end I think a lot of the time the choices you hear one advocate will be more in tune with the birds they fly. I have one rec. red hen that flat out smokes for 40+ and returns to the kit like a rubberband. I mean a bonafide A-team ripper. Sad part is more than half the time she is a borderline X to axle winger. Makes me sick every time I see those damn wings sticking out. By the way, I can count on one hand the number of true () rollers I have seen, ones that do it over and over again. I think you'll find that if most are truthful they will say something quite similar. That could be why () is considered by so many as the absolute ultimate to achieve.
Brian.
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
75 posts
Mar 18, 2004
8:31 PM
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Anon, my bad. That's what I get for working on some of this stuff late into the night. Go Vote. LOL Tony
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
Mar 18, 2004
9:09 PM
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Brian I agree the () is a step up from the H ,but man a smoken (true H ) that looks like a tennis ball with circular saw blades spinning on on the sides sure give me a woody also,I also have a bird in the A team as you describe,she's fast,very fast but if she's not conditioned her wings get out there to far,as for the A,I dont get to many but I have gotten a few that you see the bottom of the A,it seems like when you do see the solid A it's a good style but the speed is lacking.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
46 posts
Mar 18, 2004
9:18 PM
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Yah that rec red of mine hit coming in yesterday so she could have just been wearing down over the last few weeks. I'm resting her so we'll see what she does when she gets back out. If she can get them wings up, that's star power! I know what you mean about the smokin' H. One of my little joe hens was on it hard today, nailing bone chilling drillers that turned her into a little black tennis ball, man that was something to see. At a time when I am hating most of my maturing kit birds, twas nice to see some can still hit it right. By the way, I have raised two bondafide () rollers, neither one was worth a sheet as a kit bird, way too hot, but really cool to see this vertical frisbee hurley down atcha..lol
Brian.
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
84 posts
Mar 24, 2004
10:01 PM
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Hey Bob or Scott, (or anyone) can you explain why you feel the (-) or H style is better than say the X or A style?
If a pair of H's or a pair of (-)'s are bred together, do you find they reproduce same in large measure or is this like eye sign, just some co-incidental trait that you find from time to time in good rollers?
Has anyone ever seen a kit do a full turn with either of these patterns? FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
Mar 27, 2004
7:29 AM
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Tony the reason that () or a true H wing is considered high qaulity is for the same reason that diamonds are considered valuable,its because they are a thing of beauty and they hard to come by,therefore they are used as a standard for qaulity in the Birmingham Roller,X wings are a dime a dozen,the absoulute ultimate is the ball roller where the wings blur out and it looks like a spinning hardball heading down towards you and to see the true qaulity of the birds you need to be under them in order to see these wing positions,as for have I seen a full turn of these,thats like asking if you've found the Holey Grail LOL,I've never seen a full turn where every birds in the kit does it properly for min of ten feet "Properly" being the key word here as I have seen a kit of 20 where they all do "something" but if everyone of them dont do it right then you dont have a full turn,one things for certain when it comes to these birds and that is,the "lower" that your standard is the more good birds that you will think that you have and stocking will become much easier
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jim
2 posts
Mar 13, 2006
7:47 AM
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h style birds are slow because of their size,long os are because the bird islong but still slow because of size
A style same problem. rules that made ass end styles are WRONG. side view is the only way to judge a roller
X wings are of little value but are because of smaller bird
the migration to smaller starts Xwing then axle circle 2 pins 1out each side.then baseball the pure roller pure circular form.the rules cater to large birds,most purest dont breed that way no more.
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knaylor
74 posts
Mar 13, 2006
11:38 AM
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Jim, how do you think we should judge a roller from the side????
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motherlodelofts
635 posts
Mar 13, 2006
2:17 PM
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"side view is the only way to judge a roller"
Balony, if you want to see the qaulity or the "faults" you won't see it from the sides , only the worst of the worst look bad from the side , even maginal birds look ok from the side.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Mar 13, 2006 2:21 PM
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Velo99
257 posts
Mar 13, 2006
6:11 PM
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"Properly" being the key word here as I have seen a kit of 20 where they all do "something" but if everyone of them dont do it right then you dont have a full turn,one things for certain when it comes to these birds and that is,the "lower" that your standard is the more good birds that you will think that you have and stocking will become much easier."
Brian.
I know the quote is old, but as a relative novice I still have yet to fill two kit boxes. I just now got to the point where every bird rolls. In some way shape or form it rolls at least one scorable roll in each session. I am sure my standards are lower than yours. Hell I`d probably stock your culls. BUT, as I get more experience and breed better birds My standards will be higher too.
Right isn`t any different for me I know I need a lot of work. If I only fly the birds who meet the standard I would only be flying 4-5 birds and they would suffer because of not having the correct amount of teamates to perform with and I would be in a different branch of shitcreek not to mention bored out of my gourd. Then I might give up performing rollers and God Forbid! Buy some show rollers.
I have learned from you guys what to look for in a roll. I have seen the hole from the side and the H pattern from the front. I see the difference in velocities as well as the hitches in a wingswitcher. I have learned how to count the smallest number of birds be it the ones rolling or the ones sticking.
I think am learning to actually judge my own kit with a reasonable amount of accuracy. I will find out soon if I am correct or too lax. I hope I have judged on the side of strength but probably not. Unless aliens induce overflies during the quals I am pretty much screwed. Also the roller mystery factor must be accounted for. It is the unknown factor each of us encounter when we open the door. Are they gonna be good,are they gonna suck?
YITS
Kenny Hpattern
Last Edited by Velo99 on Mar 13, 2006 6:13 PM
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scotty
23 posts
Mar 14, 2006
2:42 AM
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Since I am not into kit compatition,I am breeding for individual performance,and the ability to produce the same or better.After years of watching different strains show there different abilities in the air,and watching birds perform in kit compatitions. I have determined what I like to see in the air.I prefer birds that roll with speed and style of roll.Since I am not into compatition frequency is not my top priority.If the birds that I raise don't get up and fly They are history.If the birds I raise don't kit,they are history.After the second year,the birds that I raise don't roll with style or speed,they are history.The style and speed can veary somewhat amongst the different rollers that I breed,but if it is a sloppy roller it is history.I don't like to see a roller spin with the wings away from the body,again they are history!I chose to comment on this subject because I tend to focus on style of roll.This is Important to me in the direction that I am taking my rollers in.I prefer the hole showing about the size of a half dollar.If the bird rolls and look's like a spinning horseshoe and it dosen't clarify the hole,It is history,because it dosen't have the speed.I don't even mind a tight spinning ball that increases in speed as it drops.If it has style and speed after the second season,It is a bird with value in my book.Unfortunatly I can't fly during the winter monthes because of the hawk's, so I have many older birds to refly at the end of march when the hawks migrate out of my area.I am itching to fly again soon.It has been a while.After the older birds show themselves again this spring,I will be culling out the birds that don't show style,or speed in the roll.This is my preferance only.Don't let my convince you that frequency isn't important too.The points wouldn't be racket up up if it wasen't for this trait.I'll be focusing on frequency after a few years down the line after I have ironed out the style,I've already the speed.I just breed them the way I like them.I sujest you breed them the way you like them.That's where the enjoyment is with pigeons,That's the way I see it,of course everybody see's them differently,even in the air.-Scotty
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motherlodelofts
639 posts
Mar 14, 2006
6:16 AM
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Scotty you are no track, frequency is like depth , if the qaulity isn't there it means nothing.
Scott
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C.J.
30 posts
Mar 14, 2006
6:20 AM
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Motherlode you need to get out of the coop LOL if you are getting woody's. Hell you should patent that stuff and give viagara a run for its money LOL.
Just My Two Cents!!
C.J.
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