Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1211 posts
Jul 17, 2009
9:18 AM
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Hey All, O.K., I'm retired and in lock down. I can only clean so much, next I'll be painting everything, again! ;( So if I'm driving everyone to distraction, I'm sorry! :) BUT, I had a thought, why don't we pick a topic such as floor types. Each person can describe his loft floor or kit box floor, the advantages and disadvantages of that system and what they would change if they started over. When that topic is exhausted then we can start another along the same format. IE...ventilation,wall structure, roofing.....if this sounds like a good idea, lets start with flooring. I will contribute after everyone else if my preferences are not mentioned.
Thanks
Thom
Last Edited by on Jul 20, 2009 6:43 AM
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rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
96 posts
Jul 17, 2009
9:36 AM
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I will start I have 3 kit boxes one has 1/2x1/2 wire mesh one has 1/2x1inch wire the only time it gets to be a pain cleaning is during the molt I am able to hose them out when the birds are flying, the 3rd box has pt2x6 and I keep sand on the floor I wish they were all like that poop cleans easy few more handfull of sand and done.The birds a pick at the sand like grit Rookie from ct Dennis
Last Edited by on Jul 17, 2009 9:39 AM
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j .wanless
867 posts
Jul 17, 2009
9:39 AM
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hi all
good idea thom it will give newbies diffrent ideas.
and also keep the rest of us intrested in posting.
my loft is build out of ply board so my breeders as i have 2 breeders is wooden which i sprinkle a little sand over. my kits i have 4 all have wire floors.which makes them easy to clean + the birds dont get messed up.i have a passage way were i feed my flying birds on the floor once they come in .
Last Edited by on Jul 17, 2009 9:40 AM
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katyroller
479 posts
Jul 17, 2009
9:55 AM
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My breeding lofts have wood floors. I chose wood because I breed open loft and I can put the squeakers on the floor to free up nest boxes for the next round. My squeaks get fed well on the floor and start learning to eat and drink alot quicker. Cons- If the floor gets wet it takes awhile to dry out. I like to put my drinkers on a stand with a pan under them. Must wear a respirator when scrapping the floors because of the dust.
My (3) kit boxes are inside my main loft with the breeding pens and have wire floors, 1"x1". Maintenance is nil and you don't have to worry about spilled feed. Cons- Can't really think of any other than the birds don't really like the larger wire.
Hope this helps someone!
Tracey
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Jerry Allen
5 posts
Jul 17, 2009
10:16 AM
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In the breeding loft 12x20 the floors are wood and scraped once week or so.
With clean floors in the breeding loft I can monitor the droppings easier.
The kit boxes ( 6 ) floors are 1x1. I tried 1/2 x 1/2 and 1/2 x 1 the droppings
seem to clog up too fast.
When young birds are transferred to the kit box, they seem to be scared of the
wire and it used to take them several days to come down to eat or drink.
Now I have thin plywood under the feed tray & water for them to stand on
while they get used to the wire floors
I have tried pellets, sand, cedar shavings, but the clean floors work best in my loft.
More work, but a whole lot less DUST.
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cv rollers
421 posts
Jul 17, 2009
10:52 AM
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---well for me not sure if good or bad but mine is on the ground (hard dirt)advantage for me is,I water down often to keep control of dust, to clean i water down feathers and all and rake up,great when molting.when it gets 115 degrees in the desert it also cools the birds down
Rick Flores
coachellavalleyrollers.net
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3210 posts
Jul 17, 2009
10:53 AM
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Breathing dust is the number 1 killer wear a mask when cleaning indoors...my kit boxes have wire floor 1 by half I scrape everyday twice mostly is always on my perches anyway and I take them out one by one and scrape off to the grass. takes me 5 mins.been doing this for years its a habit not work.. I will probably put draws with newspaper this time just roll up and throw out..always spraying clorox and white vinegar around ...keeps the place smelling good and killing germs..----------
Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
Last Edited by on Jul 20, 2009 8:41 AM
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1216 posts
Jul 17, 2009
4:36 PM
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O.K., My turn but the topic doesn't end here. Anyone who wants to post to the thread on any part, please do so!
My brood loft is also part of my work shop. I built three seperate pens all the same but divided by a common wall between each section. Each section is 4'X5' with a plywood floor. I use sterilized play sand for my litter. Each morning I first scrape perches then clean the sand. I use a fine mesh kitchen strainer and a small plastic dust pan. I scoop up the sand pass it through the strainer and each section is finished in 5 minutes. This removes all poo, spilt food or grit, and feathers. The biggest boon, it also removes any potential mouse droppings. If I spill any water it congeals in the sand and is easily removed. The sand does not hold any odor so my loft smells only of birds.
My kit box's use a welded wire plastic coated floor that is 11/4"X4" which lifts out for cleaning with a garden hose. This wide weave helps keep them on their perch's. I feed on a 24X24" plastic pan (which I remove after feeding) and the water has a plywood shelf that supports the water jug and one or two birds. Under the wire flooring is a catch pan 3 1/2" deep with 1" of sand. This sand is treated exactly the same as the brood loft. Under the catch pan is a layer of hardware cloth with a 1/2"X1/2" weave for mouse proofing.
That's my setup. Now would someone suggest the next topic to be discussed? Not that this one is closed! :)
Thanks
Thom
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sundance
1134 posts
Jul 17, 2009
6:39 PM
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Wood floor in the loft. Wood horse stall pellets for litter. I change them about 4 to 5 times a year. Its not perfest but I tried everything else and I like it. I do wear a mask.
total of 6 kitboxs right now. I like the 1x1 wire. I have 2 with 1x1, 2 with 1x2 wire and 2 with 1/2 x 1.
The outside boxs I spray out after the birds are released with the hose, then scrape off whats left. I hate scraping with dust. 1 box is inside a separate loft ( soon to be 2 more in there.) the 1x2 wire bottom is removable. I take it out to hose it off every week...
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1219 posts
Jul 18, 2009
6:35 AM
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What is your favorite style of perch?
Why?
Painted or bare?
How easy to mount and how expensive to make or buy?
Thanks
Thom
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katyroller
484 posts
Jul 18, 2009
7:04 AM
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The only type of perches I have used are box perches. I feel they make good use of kit box wall space, are easy to make and using 1"x6" boards are fairly economical. I always paint my lofts inside and out. I use flat paints because I believe fresh droppings on semi-gloss and gloss can be slippery and take longer to dry. I'm in the process of remodeling some kit boxes so this post is timely and should be interesting.
Tracey
Last Edited by on Jul 18, 2009 7:06 AM
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1221 posts
Jul 18, 2009
10:12 AM
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Tracey, I had and still use a few box perches but the style I like now is almost the same only easier to clean. I will post a picture for clarity but the basic dimensions are 10" on the base and 7" on the upper flat. They are cut from a two by four and I can make 11 from a single 8' two by four. That makes them very affordable at around 30 cents apiece if cut from a #1 two by four. Like you I paint with flat paint, which I did shortly after this picture was taken. :)
Thom
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katyroller
485 posts
Jul 18, 2009
12:02 PM
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Thom, At about .30 cents a perch they definitely beat the box perches I have been making. I've been remodeling my loft, the price and quality of lumber these days is absurd! I have enough scrap 2"x4" left over that those perches are looking very appealing not to mention I hate wasting if I don't have to. Thanks, for the idea my friend.
Tracey
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1223 posts
Jul 18, 2009
12:11 PM
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Tracey, You are welcome. Notice that the perch is mounted straight to the wall. I tried leaving a space like a box perch but it just makes a place for nasty stuff to collect. When mounted to the wall a 4" putty knife will clean the whole perch with one pass. In the loft I spaced them 3 1/2" apart. I just used a piece of 2X4 as a spacer while I mounted them. I hope you like the way they work. One last note, if you have a compound miter saw make the first 45 degree cut then just flop the 2X4 and cut the next one. :)
Thom
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Scott
2376 posts
Jul 18, 2009
12:13 PM
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V perch , easy to make, easy to clean,keeps birds clean, space effective.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Scott
2377 posts
Jul 18, 2009
12:16 PM
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Here is a big importance for kitbirds, that being a feed tray that offers a equel chance at the feed for every bird.
I have seen many use feeders where the strong stiffs get the lions share, myuself I use a 30x30 metal tray, I find this good for 20 birds.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1225 posts
Jul 18, 2009
2:03 PM
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Hey Scott, I use a 24X26" tray which is the biggest that will fit through my kit box door. Your point is right on. I also scatter the feed around the pan so all have an equal chance. Even with this a younger bird might be pushed out so I always feel their crop to insure the got enough and sometimes feed them just a little more in a seperate box.
Thanks for bring that up!
Thom
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Squabby*32
47 posts
Jul 18, 2009
4:46 PM
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I have a tuff shed for my loft 8' wide by 12' long). I have 4 kit boxes (each one 3' square) a section for my breeders to breed during season and 2 break up pens to seperate the breeders all inside of my shed. To keep the birds off of the floor, I built frames for each floor section out of 2X4's and put mesh wire on the top portion to keep my birds out of the feces. To clean the shed, I remomve the wire framed floor to clean each area in the shed once a week and this system is working well for me.
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DJJeffman Spinners
ATAPWGIYAHTLY
Last Edited by on Jul 18, 2009 4:49 PM
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Scott
2384 posts
Jul 18, 2009
7:27 PM
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Bingo !
(I always feel their crop to insure the got enough and sometimes feed them just a little more in a seperate box.)
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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RodSD
291 posts
Jul 19, 2009
12:28 AM
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I use wooden floor to know their droppings. I clean every day and I use a mask because it can become dusty. I used to have wire floor, but I ended up with hardware cloth that accumulates poops. Nevertheless, wire floor has less maintenance and probably can help you if you have any worm problem by not exposing those birds from eating their own poops.
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Windjammer Loft
840 posts
Jul 19, 2009
6:59 AM
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Here we go... My loft is 21'x18' Everything is under one roof. I have 5 kitboxes inside that are 4'w x 3'd x 7'h. with floors of sheets of marlite 4x8 panels. Which I have spread about 1 1/2" of corn cobbs down. I have wire sub floors (2-24"x36" sections)made of 2x4 with 1"x1" hard wire. The advantgage is the birds are always on the wire and not standing in their poop. Also when cleaning I just lift up the sub floor sections and rake out the poop.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Jul 20, 2009 4:36 AM
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1232 posts
Jul 19, 2009
7:21 AM
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Hey Paul, You got me, what is a marlite panal? Your setup sounds like it would be easy to maintain.
Thanks
Thom
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1233 posts
Jul 19, 2009
7:23 AM
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Hey All, what type of feeding and watering system do you have. Do you give grit from a station?
Thanks
Thom
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Velo99
2145 posts
Jul 19, 2009
7:29 AM
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Wood floors in the loft,poop trays under the kitboxes. 1/2x1/2 wire floors in the kitboxes. I like the security of the smaller wire and it scrapes easy enuff.I use stove pellets for a floor dressing in the breeder loft.
For feeders I built feeders that are 42 inches long. They feed 24 birds each. The top is pretty low so they cant sling seed all over the place. I use a 24 slot round feeder in the breeder loft.its 2 inches deep which minimizes the feed being slung out of the feeder.
yits
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V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
___ ~_____ __
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__14___()_)\__\
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Electric-man
2413 posts
Jul 19, 2009
8:34 AM
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Do you have a picture of the kitbox feeders Kenny?
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Val
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sundance
1136 posts
Jul 19, 2009
1:46 PM
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Thom. I like the look of them perches. I might try them sometime. I use mostly box style perches in the kitboxs now. Some painted, some not. I have found I like the unpainted better. Seems easier to clean them. I currently use several styles of feeders. I like the box style with holes in the side best. No feed get tossed and no poop gets in.
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1234 posts
Jul 19, 2009
2:00 PM
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Thanks Guys, For my waters I use vinegar jugs, the one gal size. I cut a two inch hole on the handle side and a larger hole on the back so I can get my hand in for cleaning.
For feed, In the Crown breeding cages I use O.J. jugs in the 96 oz. size, they exactly fit the area provided I cut holes at two inches that are opposing. This helps with feed waste, some still gets out but nothing like the containers that came with the system.
In the individual pens I use the fold down tray that I posted earlier.
Kenny, I also would like to see a picture if that is possible. Thanks
Butch, I have one side of my kit box perches painted and the other side plain wood as an experiment. I'm starting to lean toward unpainted also.
Thanks Guys
Thom
Last Edited by on Jul 19, 2009 2:01 PM
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sundance
1137 posts
Jul 19, 2009
4:24 PM
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Thom, I use 1 gallon milk jugs for the water. All of them are outside the kit boxs or lofts. I also cut a 2"hole in the jugs and a 2" hole in the wire or front of the box. Waterer stays clean, basically...
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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Windjammer Loft
842 posts
Jul 20, 2009
4:40 AM
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As for my feeders this is what they look like. I have 1 in each kitbox. And the waters are just behind the feeders in blue. Also,I make my own V-perches.
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Jul 20, 2009 4:44 AM
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1236 posts
Jul 20, 2009
6:49 AM
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Hey All, Everyone mentions training you young birds to respond to a call, whistle,rattle, COW BELL (I love that)! What is your method for this training?
How do you start, how long before they will answer when called?
Thanks
Thom
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Windjammer Loft
846 posts
Jul 20, 2009
7:20 AM
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I use a "clicker",used in dog training and rattle a feed can. I start with my breeders when feeding them. As the young hear this from their start in the egg and continue for every feeding for the rest of their lives. They answer the call for feed from the time I take them out of the nest and put them on the floor of the breeder loft. When I see them eating on their own,then I can put them in their own kitbox.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Jul 20, 2009 7:29 AM
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1237 posts
Jul 20, 2009
10:20 AM
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Hey Paul, I do almost the same as you. I use a stainless steel can with some pop corn in it for the rattle. I start training as soon as they are in the nest. Then I rattle when they are on the floor and continue throughout the rest of their life. I have pulled them down from several hundred feet by rattling the feed can. Having this control has saved some when I see a B.O.P. on the horizon or a storm starting to form. It also helps me judge if I'm on the feed, if they stop responding as I wish then I will cut back slightly.
Thanks Paul
Thom
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Scott
2387 posts
Jul 20, 2009
11:55 AM
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Cow Bell, loud and easy , a real pain when you mis place it though as you can't duplicate it and the birds just look at you on top of the loft waiting for the bell, I probably should dble it up with whistling also, anything will work, even farts if you can muster them up at will.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 20, 2009 11:57 AM
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1238 posts
Jul 20, 2009
12:46 PM
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farts, Never thought of that. It's one thing I have plenty of! :)
Thom, the orig. oldfart
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TheGame
584 posts
Jul 20, 2009
9:12 PM
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Paul I really like that feeder idea. Looks great, nice job.
Where exactly is that located in your kitbox?
Last Edited by on Jul 20, 2009 9:17 PM
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Windjammer Loft
849 posts
Jul 21, 2009
8:58 AM
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Game....looking at the photo,you are looking at the front of the kitbox, standing inside of my loft. Just behind the blue waterer is an axcess door to release them.
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1244 posts
Jul 21, 2009
10:37 AM
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Thanks Everyone! If there is any topic that needs to be discussed, jump in anytime!
Until then, How do you feed you kit birds?
What do you feed you kit birds?
When do you feed your kit birds?
Thanks, Thom
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3226 posts
Jul 21, 2009
11:12 AM
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What do you feed you kit birds?Thom the only feed i can get my hands on around this whole Island is 16 percent
purgrain protein mix and I'm lucky to get that..but you know what my birds roll because they want to roll because I can't give them wheat or milo because its not here. the good thing about it is when I breed I know I'm getting birds that I didn't have to change the feed to make them roll.
when do I feed them I fly young one's in AM after the fly they get 3 hands full.. evening they get a cup and a half taking a little here and there if they don't trap in on time..the older birds get a table spoon each and same thing apply they talk to me I just listen.. ----------
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Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
Last Edited by on Jul 21, 2009 1:25 PM
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1247 posts
Jul 21, 2009
12:31 PM
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Hey Ralph, My young birds get 25% mix and 25% wheat&milo and 50% pellets. I think the pellets digest easily, the wheat&milo give them a quick boost of energy, and the mix sustains them over time. I just evolved to this method over time and it works for my birds. I feed 1/3 of their expected ration in the morning if they fly or not and in the evening or after their second fly, I feed more then they can or will eat. BUT, I watch them feed and pull the tray when they lose interest or start going to water. I then feel the crop of any bird I suspect might not have gotten it's share and feed them a little more in a seperate pen. Like everyone I'm in a learning process and nothing is written in stone! :)
Thom
Last Edited by on Jul 21, 2009 12:32 PM
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3227 posts
Jul 21, 2009
1:29 PM
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Thom its a good thing you check them because sometimes if you take the tray away because a few start going to the water it could mean that bird ate faster and had his fill..so in checking them its important..your learning process is going great...
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Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
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