kham89
247 posts
Jul 17, 2009
11:37 AM
|
A few guys was arguing whether the roll is a genetic trait on the chat the other day. I just thought I bring it up and see what you guys think.
Is the Roll a genetic trait? If no why and explain, if yes why and explain?
----------
kham thao
|
rollinfever
102 posts
Jul 17, 2009
12:51 PM
|
i would like to know too..i heard that it was some kind of fault in pigeons genetics lol..but i dont know,,and i also heard ..when they roll they are having seizures lol..whatever it is its cool:]
|
ezeedad
1010 posts
Jul 17, 2009
2:52 PM
|
Yes... of course roll is a genetic trait.. A trait is a feature or characteristic that is controlled by genes. Genes have the designs for everything that makes up living things... That includes the physical make-up as well as the way that biochemical reactions take place...effecting behaviors.
It's just that simple...and that complex...
Paul Gomez
Last Edited by on Jul 17, 2009 2:53 PM
|
donnie james
575 posts
Jul 17, 2009
3:59 PM
|
i have to agree with paul a 110%................donny james
|
Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1218 posts
Jul 17, 2009
4:54 PM
|
Dang Paul, you did not leave anything for anyone else to say! :)
Thom
|
nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3569 posts
Jul 17, 2009
5:00 PM
|
The roll is a trait and not an affliction or a degenerative condition. It is a recessive gene that don't always prevail in all birds.
I know this is true because an old Turk told me. He also told me that the only sin God will not forgive you is if a woman calls you to her bed and you do not go.
----------
Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
|
donb
51 posts
Jul 17, 2009
6:49 PM
|
As several have said , the roll is an inherited characteristic, however I think it is a dominant gene.When I was a kid I crossed a good roller on a red ck commie and the offspring did do a backflip. I may be wrong but I also think it is a cumulative gene in that the more of the gene abird has, the more it rolls. It's like when mendel was working with color genes in a particular flower( can't remember which one )depending on the number of genes-- the more it had the redder it was-- lesser number of genes faded out to pale pink. Just my thoughts on it . DB
|
Bill C
407 posts
Jul 17, 2009
10:54 PM
|
Hi Kham, I would say yes it is a genetic trait but that they all have it to some degree more or less. Epilepsy is the most likely or closest genetic trait they seem to have. I tell people who are not roller guys that they do not have epilepsy because they can resist the roll when chased by a BOP or when fed too much but really I believe the opposite.
The genetic trait is in their brain, none of them have complete control even to us it looks like the best of them do have control. Some of us hate the over heated birds that bump or crash all the time and move onto a family that has more control. That is the key, MORE CONTROL. They still do not have complete control I would say. They dont roll coming out of the box and landing but in the air, they roll once a minute or twice and we like that kind and breed towards that kind of bird.
I believe the drenalin (spelling?) is where they get the control from. WHen chased by a hawk they stop rolling for the most part and fly fast. This is like a foot ball coach telling his team before they play, DO YOU WANT TO WIN, YES! DO YOU WANT TO WIN?, YES!!! each time they yelll yes lounder. This is getting them in the mind frame and their drenalin going.
If rollers fly fast they do not want to roll or wont roll as often. But when we get them fed right and fly slower they cant help it and roll more. The roll is in them all but we bring it out by manipulating them the right way (tweaked just right)
If your brids are relaxed and flying slow they will roll. They will have thier tails wide open and fly slow and roll. BUt if flying faster they will have straigt tails and faster wing beat and roll less.
The genetic trait to make them roll is there in them all but only those that can handle it are what we want. They are few and so we have many culls becuase the right combination to reproduce them is hard to achieve. This is why so many use one cock or hen to get unisom performance and lock in the good genetic traits in higher percentages. So we breed to have the dice roll in our favor being more good ones and less bumpers,out brids, frequent mad tumblers.
I know that epilepcy is not excepted by many becuase it is a fault in and of itself. But these birds are made by man just like the fantail that is a bird with a serious fault and would not survive in the wild either if left alone. Because we breed for the birds that have control and can live with rolling and seem to actually enjoy it at times, I dont have a problem with it in my mind. God said man is to rule over the birds of the field and beast of the field. They are here for our food and enjoyment just like dogs that could not fend for themselves in the wild.
It has to be a genetic trait that is passed on from one generation to the next but the outcome is not always in the same sequence to get a champion each time so we have to experiment and find out what works best for each flyer and breeder. I say there is not one way to breed rollers. There are some slower routes but still end up with good birds in time. BIll C
|
Shadow
400 posts
Jul 18, 2009
1:27 AM
|
Would agree that roll is a trait/talent but as it for being an actual gene,no chance,else all pigeons would have it, ya would have the commies flippin all over the place,the actual roll possibily began as an evasive reaction to a predator,and has been sculpted and honed into the roll thats existing in our birds to day,so therfore the roll itself is man induced,like the difference existing in fancy pigeons,all man induced,its the traits and talents that has got genitic links,the actual roll doesnt,as it doesnt exist as a gene,a case in point would be,without our input,the roller would revert back to a stiff flying bird if left to its own development,without our input
|
ezeedad
1011 posts
Jul 18, 2009
10:44 AM
|
Looks like I should try to go a little deeper..
Let me try to explain.. I am a retired biology teacher, so I've been through this a lot...
A gene is a segment of DNA that codes for the production of one protein. The protein can be either a structural part of a cell, or more frequently it is an enzyme, which regulates chemical reactions. So everything having to do with the pigeon is the result of what codes are contained in the DNA of the individual. I believe that a pigeon has about 6,000 genes altogether.
Also, roll apparently has a few different genes affecting this behavior. If it had only a couple, every pigeon would show the same or similar characteristics of performance.
We, as breeders, select from the gene pools at our disposal to produce birds having those combinations of genes that will produce the best rollers.
Paul G
|