steve49
96 posts
Jul 18, 2009
4:54 PM
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after a YB kit has been taught to trap when called, what is the next most important step in their training, after they've been released and know where they get fed?
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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Squabby*32
49 posts
Jul 18, 2009
5:00 PM
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I would say the flying time needs to be worked on and the roll. Just my thoughts. Good luck.
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DJJeffman Spinners
ATAPWGIYAHTLY
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steve49
97 posts
Jul 18, 2009
5:34 PM
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ok, DJ, now how about let's start a thread about the how's of increasing flying time. flying time has been my first area of interest with my current kit. some comments have involved feeding times, amounts and also flagging early landers. it would be so helpful if the more experienced flyers would chime in here and help us newbies with a list of steps, with the first being the most important and then followed with the next step. most often, i'm sure, you can't move on to the next step until the birds have mastered the first step. i'm sure there will be many different views and ideas, but that's what makes this forum such a great tool.
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1227 posts
Jul 18, 2009
5:40 PM
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Steve, I'm not sure if you can do it in single steps. Once I'm confident my young birds are homed and will answer to the feed can rattle. I start working on keeping them in the air if they are not flying as long as I want. I'm not a big fan of flagging them off of the kit box as I think it teaches them bad habits, like tree sitting or sitting on roof's, wires,..... If I'm going to flag I never allow them to settle on the kit box but will flag when they start dropping and only as a kit. I do not flag individuals. When they are kitting I start weeding out birds into my second chance kit. I mean second chance, not last chance. I think many a good roller has been lost by removing them to early for slight transgressions. My last chance kit is for tree sitters, wire sitters and out birds that will not kit even after time in the second chance kit.
Next I work on teaching them to drop and trap when I want by the feed can rattle. I have saved a few because they obeyed and avoided a B.O.P. or a storm. I could go on but that is a start for now. I hope this helps.
Thom
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steve49
98 posts
Jul 18, 2009
5:51 PM
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hey Thom, that's a great help! as you know, i'm trying to reinvent the wheel, but since i lack so much roller smarts, i'm taking baby steps. i'm sure other newbies would find this thread helpful. i was talking to PR Rollers today, and he's a firm believer in getting the early birds back up with the still flying birds. his suggestion of hiding the flag, and using it sparingly as a tool has intrigued me. of course, Mike Rose, who bred my birds, has encourage me to wait another week till they're flying 2 weeks or more before flagging. maybe the problem is there is more than one way to flag??? Ralph says not to make it obvious, kinda hide the flag and then try not to let the birds know it was YOU who flagged THEM! this is a LOT harder than i thought it was going to be!
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1228 posts
Jul 18, 2009
6:15 PM
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Hey Steve, I agree with Ralph and in at least two weeks before doing anything about flagging. I have a kit box flag but I seldom use it. I think given a little time to learn and gain strength your birds will start flying their time. If you need to "flag" anything out of the ordinary will work. As they drop throw an empty milk jug across the yard, or bang a screen door (not near the kit box) start the lawn mower.... but I caution you, given time all of this might not be necessary. As they gain strength and confidence they will fly longer, that is when you start to control them with slight variations of feed. From this point everything should be done as a kit. Feed them together, bath them together and trap them as a kit. I would prefer that even if it's something wrong they do it together. You are doing fine, just slow down a little. :)
Thom
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Squabby*32
50 posts
Jul 18, 2009
6:40 PM
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ok, steve49, looks like you have your flying time thread started. Good luck.
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DJJeffman Spinners
ATAPWGIYAHTLY
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steve49
100 posts
Jul 18, 2009
6:55 PM
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yeah, the thread is started with the usual players, we need some other viewpoints as well, no disrespect intended, Thom. actually, ralph said i could try flagging, but do it so discreetly so as not to think "I" did it. i could worry that if i DON'T progress fast enough, i may cause my birds to learn some bad habits. Of course, if I do something prematurely, and cause harm that way, i'm no better off either way. so....i'll give them some time to get better, stronger and smarter. i've seen signs of all these traits poking thru their babyness. one thing for sure, i didn't realize others were as passionate about this hobby as i am!
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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Squabby*32
52 posts
Jul 18, 2009
7:07 PM
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Steve, there are DVD's available for people that are new to the sport that I managed to get my hands on and they taught me a lot. The NBRC page as well as this site has info on them I believe. I believe some birds require more patience than the others and it seems you are willing to go thru with it. Good luck.
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DJJeffman Spinners
ATAPWGIYAHTLY
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1230 posts
Jul 19, 2009
4:44 AM
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Hey Steve, I was not very clear with my post, what I wanted to say was that I agreed with Ralph in not letting them know you were the one flagging them and I also agreed with Mike Rose, the person you got your birds from who advised you not to flag for two weeks. I just wanted to clear that up. :)
Thom
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steve49
103 posts
Jul 19, 2009
5:26 AM
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Thom, i also have to glean from everyone and form my own ideas based on others success. oddly enough, this mornings fly (sun 7-19) my birds 'all' flew higher than they ever did and stayed up almost 20 minutes, before the early guys dropped. still 8 flew another 10 minutes, so i guess someone told my birds about this post and they got the message. LOL
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1231 posts
Jul 19, 2009
6:06 AM
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Hey Steve, I'm happy for you. It sounds like you have everything under control!
Thom
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Windjammer Loft
838 posts
Jul 19, 2009
6:14 AM
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steve49 and all of the newer guys/gals. "Patience" is a vertue.. Which I have stated many a time before. I think that many of us are just too "impatient. We all know the succession of what comes next but,we all want it to happen "NOW". You must give these young birds time and practice.. The more experience the birds have in doing things the better they become. Just take things alittle slower and give them time. Good management is the key. They will all come around to what we want in our birds... It's hard to put a time frame on these things too. Like I said the more flying time the better they become.
This is the way I do things:
1st.. ..get them to eat and drink on their own(feed all they need
2nd..get them use to their outside environmemt.(use settling cage)
3rd..get use to being called in to eat.(I use a clicker &
rattle a feed can)
4th..let them out to sit on the roof and experience their wing control. they will flap their wings playing with the wind and suddenly start to fly.
5th.. give them plenty of fly time. The more they fly the longer they will stay up.
5th..when they come into their roll I start to adjust their amount of feed.
Thier is "NO time limit on when all these things take place. Hope this is answering your questions..
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Jul 19, 2009 6:33 AM
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steve49
105 posts
Jul 19, 2009
6:22 AM
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Hi Paul, i agree with you, however the doubt and questions started entering my mind when some told me to flag them, chase them, do this and do that. at this point, before i do something radical, i like to bounce it off the forum and see what others have to say. patience is a clear favorite, and even though i'm tempted to rush things, i know in my heart that all those people encouraging patience are probably right. i'm ok with taking my time, afterall, Rome wasn't built in a day, and i really can't expect my birds (less than 3 months old) and only having flown 14 times, to do as well as older birds who've already kitted and started rolling. i wouldn't already have 100 posts in less than one month if i wasn't asking lots of questions. its not only what others will say, but what my birds say to me. they're so tame, that I don't want them to fear me, but respect me and still come to the kitbox knowing its their sanctuary.
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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Windjammer Loft
839 posts
Jul 19, 2009
6:40 AM
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steve49...Like I explained...this is the way I do "MY"
birds. Each flyer has their own twist on what to do, when to do it and how to do it. Just take what feels right to you and what kind of results you get. For instance when it comes to "flagging" I don't usually do this. But,with my Oriental Rollers I "HAVE" to do it. They are a much more difficult bird to get to fly..
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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rookie from ct
GOLD MEMBER
99 posts
Jul 20, 2009
4:52 PM
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steve 49 just be patience it will all happen in time your luckey to have TOP NOTCH BIRDS at this stage of the game give them time and be concestent what you do your birds are young and have to learn what you want them to do you are the manager give them time. Rookie from ct
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steve49
106 posts
Jul 20, 2009
6:12 PM
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just wanted to thank everybody for responding on this topic. the birds today were flying almost 15 minutes before a few started heading back. when they were almost above my roof, i put up a flag, and they went back up for another 10 minutes or so. i put the flag away, and allowed them to come down and this time i whistled and shook the feed can so they all dropped to the kitbox. i'm very pleased with the improvement, and their response to the flag was great. it wasn't as bad as i thought it would be. its a tool, not a weapon, so i made sure that's how i used it. i fully intended to only flag one or two times, nothing more. i also decided to increase their feed a bit, to 22 tablespoons for 19. they left some food over, so i think i've got that worked out for this group. i have a second kit that i picked up sunday, and they will be getting their dayscreen tomorrow.
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3216 posts
Jul 20, 2009
6:59 PM
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Hey Steve good to hear that...and don't worry the flag will not untame your birds they will learn what you want from them and respond ..I had flag all my life and they don't fear me the breeders never run from their nest when they see me.
It all depend the family you have.
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Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
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steve49
110 posts
Jul 21, 2009
12:52 PM
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thanx Ralph. got any money left after fixing your car? ;)
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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JR LOPEZ
2 posts
Jul 25, 2009
5:25 AM
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Steve49 Hello! I'm having the same problem with my kit and it's good hear everyone's Idea's.
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JR LOPEZ
4 posts
Jul 25, 2009
5:29 AM
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It also drives me crazy when my kit won't fly.
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steve49
127 posts
Jul 25, 2009
6:42 AM
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"It also drives me crazy when my kit won't fly. "
they will, trust me. read your post, i responded there too
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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