rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
420 posts
Jul 30, 2009
8:05 PM
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I was reading the articles by Tony "do you know what you are doing" and "the natural" and had to wonder
What would I do if I got my hands on "the one". This bird would have to be truly great. Once plus a minute, multiple depth, fast, and great style. And easy to manage! Yea I am dreaming.
Rick Mee I believe found "the one" for him. I believe every bird in the loft goes back to one cock Bird. Guil Rand also has "the one" that his whole loft now goes back to. Is this a good way to create your own family?
I have two families that I work with. If that Cock bird ever turns up I believe I would polygamy breed him on my best hens. Regardless of family. He would definitely be breed to his mother.
My side projects would be in producing related birds to breed to him. I would be looking for full sisters to breed to him. I would also be breeding his parents to my best hens for half sister matings.
Just wondering if this is what others would do, or if you guys have other ideas? Or am I crazy.
P.S. if you have this bird let me know I have a box I can send you. LOL
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RT Williams
Last Edited by on Jul 30, 2009 8:18 PM
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Scott
2431 posts
Jul 30, 2009
8:30 PM
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You have a hen that I think of constantly that should have never left the property , I sure wish she would have been offered back since she was a gift to someone.
Some times the "one" is what has slipped through our fingers as it takes years to proove out such birds.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 30, 2009 8:33 PM
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
421 posts
Jul 30, 2009
8:41 PM
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Scott
I wish I had that hen, I believe I have offspring form her. I will Call you tomorrow to find out for sure.
If I could get her I would.
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RT Williams
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cv rollers
435 posts
Jul 30, 2009
8:46 PM
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RT what happen to the hen ????
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Rick Flores
coachellavalleyrollers.net
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Scott
2432 posts
Jul 30, 2009
8:53 PM
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She is one of the band numbers that you asked me about, she is that 629 98 hen , if she is still hitting use her wisely
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
422 posts
Jul 30, 2009
8:56 PM
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RIck
I am not sure which hen excactly, However I got my KGB birds from Brian Middaugh, and asked Scott about them after visiting KGB. I believe Brian got his birds from Scott. I gave Scott the band numbers of the parents of the birds I have. I believe one of these parent birds that Brian Middaugh has/had is the hen Scott is referring to.
Brian actually referred to some of his birds as gifts and would not sell or give them away. Because they were gifts as Scott refered to.
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RT Williams
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
423 posts
Jul 30, 2009
9:00 PM
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Scott
I have a hen from her; BM 07 1958. her father is 03-593.
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RT Williams
Last Edited by on Jul 30, 2009 9:01 PM
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Scott
2433 posts
Jul 30, 2009
9:30 PM
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Oh Ok, got ya
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
424 posts
Jul 30, 2009
10:11 PM
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Scott brings up a good point, what if this bird is a hen, How do you make a hen your foundation?
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RT Williams
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winwardrollers
272 posts
Jul 30, 2009
10:31 PM
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Trampas
All my best matings pairs are Uncle/niece or Aunt/nephew.
Breeding close and creating a family gives us roller breeders a good base/constain to work with.
That one bird is what I look for yearly...it is not some special bird in the past..the past birds began to fade and the... new fore front birds... seem to have what we need at the time...to put back into the breeding progam what we may start to be lacking as generations pass.
Breeding rollers is more like juggling that holding on...to the one. The guys who are holding on in this hobby will show you a pedigree sheet.
The guys who are breeding good rollers are holding on to good breeding base then juggling that base each year for improvements needed at that time.
It sounds like you are still looking for a good individual or to for a start. It take a few years to understand a family of rollers.
bwinward
bwinward
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
425 posts
Jul 31, 2009
1:48 PM
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Brad
Thanks for the post. I am still looking for the one. I got my start by getting a few young birds to fly and then pair up. It is a matter of time for me to see the goods. I have some good blood in my loft, but can I get it all togther?
I bred about 30 birds per family from 3 pairs per family. I hope a few make the grade, and I can move forward to breeding birds that I raised, that I know what they are capable of, and are mine.
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RT Williams
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winwardrollers
273 posts
Aug 01, 2009
9:58 AM
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Trampas
Sounds like you doing great..takes a few years.
bwinward
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
426 posts
Aug 01, 2009
8:04 PM
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Brad
I reread your post. I like your juggling analogy. I broke my pairs up this year to mix them up a little to do just that. Next year, unless a pair really cliked, The pairs will be different again.
I also pulled my best pigeon in the kit (my inexperienced opinion) and am getting a round from her on her father (maybe two because a foster pair is timing right), then stick her back in the kit. I am questioning putting her in the kit, or using her as a breeder next year. I would hate to lose her, but on the other hand what is she going to do after her first true molt. These Starley's are pretty stable so I do not think she would go bad, but who you never know.
Right now she is a solid pigeon that performs even when the others are stiff.
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RT Williams
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winwardrollers
274 posts
Aug 01, 2009
9:44 PM
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Trampas
I breed 8 to 10 birds out of a pair each year and evaluate the young. I take note come Fall....then mark the birds and reevalute the birds the next spring. The birds that make the A-team have be good for two seasons..before I think of breeding them.
If a pair doen't produce from the note's I took they could either go in the air again or remated and tried another year. I have bunch of click pairs.. now... that I have ecumulated over the years...now the juggling...All pairings from all families of rollers have some type of deficiancy...even among the pairing with-in a tight breed family.....therfor it requires breeding in the direction of frequency, or type, or infrequency, or speed, or homing ability....or etc..some birds have it and some don't..even being brother and sisters.
It really gets down to stacking that resessive roll gene up...that is just luck in my opinion..but good notes tight breeding then out crossing to test now and then we can make some of or own luck.
One specific breeder can carry the program for some time and even give us a base family to work with for a life time....but if you look at Mee's or Guils birds you will find that the gene pool diversifies as you go down the line from a specific bird...in other words in my loft it take many pairs with a tight gene pool breed back and forth to make some of the new and improved. Specific birds do get a lot of credit but with out SELECTIVE BREEDING you can end up with junkers.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Aug 02, 2009 2:33 PM
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
383 posts
Aug 02, 2009
8:22 AM
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rtwilliams..I do believe the 514 might have been a hen,ah yea she was a hen and quite a foundation hen at that.The Red Headed Hen 255, again foundation hen she was the mother of Pensom,s Nither Cock 3819. So what is so wrong about a foundation hen? JDA
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
427 posts
Aug 02, 2009
4:42 PM
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JDA
I have no problems using a hen to be the foundation of my loft. My question is how do you do it?
Cocks are easy to do, polygammy breed and go. But how do you do it with a hen?
thanks
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RT Williams
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
386 posts
Aug 02, 2009
9:50 PM
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Very careful for she has just so many eggs in her sack,so keep it tight to the family,best to best and foster out her eggs.Two rounds fostered and then another cock of top quality for two rounds and soon.Good luck with your project.JDA
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