Oldfart
GOLD MEMBER
1284 posts
Aug 04, 2009
3:40 PM
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Hey Paul, I'm not totally convinced that a tail is necessary for the bird to fly or roll. So my choice is from an aesthetic point only. I like a rounded or spoon shape just because I think it's pretty. :)
Thom
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Bill C
420 posts
Aug 04, 2009
9:45 PM
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Paul, if you would like to know something important to the tail feathers. I had a guy point this out me earlier this year.
When your birds are flying look at the tails when they are up 200 feet to 500 feet. Once they get to the hieght they want to fly at take notice of their tails. If they fly with the tails open in a fan they will be rolling and setting up for breaks but if they fly with straight tails they will not roll much and are flying too fast.
The feed you give them and the amount will dictate how they fly fast or slow. Now when you fly your brids and they roll all the time you will notice the tails are fanned out. The get them in this kind of flying pattern is not as easy as 1 2 3 but work with them on the feed, wheat, milo and pellets or mostly wheat and a little mix and try something totally different from two weeks to the next week or two.
This is a bit off the main topic but tails do play a role in the air as far as showing the birds are in the mode for rolling or not. Bill C
Last Edited by on Aug 04, 2009 9:46 PM
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PAUL R.
73 posts
Aug 04, 2009
11:40 PM
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Bill C,
In your observation, once you determine what birds were flying to set up for the roll with the tails open in a fan. Did you have more narrow feathers or the spoon shape.
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
492 posts
Aug 05, 2009
7:09 AM
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Paul,
Isn't tail feather shape a family trait? What does it have to do with rolling ability?
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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J_Star
2053 posts
Aug 05, 2009
7:37 AM
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I have them in both shape. I never paid attention to which is better or not but I prefer the narrow tail for looks purposes. It looks neater.
Jay
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PAUL R.
75 posts
Aug 05, 2009
8:01 AM
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Sunflower, Im trying to find out which of the two shows to be a faster spinner and which has more roll/frequency.
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j .wanless
907 posts
Aug 05, 2009
8:08 AM
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hi all
does not matter what shape tail feathers are ive seen birds roll with no tail.it may make a diffrence in the wings but not the tail.as you can take the tail feathers out + they will still roll.but pull the main flights out of the wings + they wont roll.
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Bill C
421 posts
Aug 05, 2009
9:37 PM
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Paul R, the guys are right, there really is nothing in the shape of the tail feathers to help in rolling ability. I have no idea as to the tail being spoon or narrow ect. The velocity is due to right body type and good wing postion and fed right and from a bird which is able to produce one. Good rollers are about the breeders, they can produce more of them.
You need to breed towards velocity to have it. IF the birds are not from a family with velocity, you could get one here or there but not in the quantity you really want. Try and get out and see some kits fly out of your area and as far as you can travel.
You will see birds you like better than others and seek out some of those kind if you are not happy with the birds you have now.
As to your question, getting your birds to fly slow will make them roll as with flying with fan tails, they are really the same thing. Then you notice the birds rolling fast over tumblers. We all have a good birds and a tumbler now and then.
I dont want to direct you to a certain body type or anything that might make you think one trait will make a good roller but rather birds that have it all make the best rollers and watching them develop over two years will teach you more than I can say. We all learn more from trial and error than we want to admit. Keep up your questions that is how I learned also. Good luck, Bill
Last Edited by on Aug 05, 2009 9:38 PM
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fresnobirdman
638 posts
Aug 06, 2009
12:26 AM
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anyone got a pic of a spoon tail roller?
-fou
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pigeon pete
345 posts
Aug 06, 2009
3:00 AM
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Paul,
If you see a picture of a roller in the roll, and it has it's tail spread out, then it's possible that a tail with narrower feathers could be at an advantage because it will have more ventilation and as a result may be causing less drag than wider tail feathers.
I'm no scientist so what I am about to say could be totally wrong.
Why? because when are comparing air to water, the dynamics may be totaly different, what the ( ) am I getting at? Please be patient with a rambling old man,lol
Swimmers always used to cup the hand to get purchase on the water, but nowadays they will swim with open fingers because the theory is that each finger creates turbulance and drag, and the sum of the drag on those open fingers will create more drag than the cupped hand. How this translates to pigeons tails I will leave for you to decide (:>
The advice to breed towards velocity is right, but if you are breeding towards velocity with big fluffy rollers with wide feathers and I am doing the same with medium sized, neat feathered birds, I know who will succeeed first. What I am saying is that you need to have good conformation and the right combination of rolling genes, both, not either.
Keep asking the questions, keep listening to the advice but more importantly weigh up for yourself the value of that advice in the light of your own experience with your rollers.
Pete.
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PAUL R.
76 posts
Aug 06, 2009
8:04 AM
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PIgeon Pete, I strongly believe that your example holds water in comparing with the tails. I have friend who brought this to my attention. He ask which were the fastest kit birds in my kit & sure enough, the answer revealed itself.
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